To expect Sunday as the agreement -update

[TipJarTroubadours]

I'm not sure if anyone actually wants an update, but I was reading another thread where an update was promised and I was disappointed to find that there wasn't an update. Then I remembered I was just as bad. Although I did feel a bit bruised being compared to a rapist.

Link to original thread below but I've also copied the first post in the next reply as I hate clicking on links.

The. Question on the original was really

Am I being unreasonable to expect my nephew to do what he agreed to in return for accommodation?

Well we all met at my parents at Christmas, my mum who initially thought I was BU, didn't realise that he wasn't paying rent in return for attending Sunday Lunch and was then cross at me for giving things away for free.

My parents then offered to help pay towards accommodation with no strings, but said it would have to come out of his inheritance - my sister didn't want this so it was agreed he would attend after Christmas.

He attended for three weeks and then stopped. I told my sister but said he could live here rent free until the end of the first year but that he can not come back in September. I'm not sure she believes that we will follow through.

For the avoidance of doubt we are not religious, and I guess this is no longer really an AIBU, as I don't think we are.

Another way of seeing it is that the OP is teaching him that his life is not his own and that even though he now thinks he has attained adulthood and is probably really excited to explore the possibilities that presents.

But actually he is bound by a set of somewhat tedious expectations which have been foisted on him because he has the misfortune not to have as much access to money as older members of his family.

Come on. We love our families. Even though they may be a bit shit sometimes.And eventually that will be reciprocated .. but you have to let young people live their lives.

I would get your new tenant for September signed up pronto. And make sure DN and your sister know that you have done so, so there can’t be any misunderstandings down the line.

@malwarehis life is his own - it's an hour or two on a Sunday - hardly onerous. And OP is okay if something crops up.
He could pay the rent or use the money his GPs offered to pay, but he wants his inheritance.
Maybe it's a good thing to learn that life comes with responsibilities and that the world doesn't owe him everything his own way. We are expected to keep our word. He didn't have to agree to these terms!

I am sure he meant to keep his word when he started. But he had no knowledge or understanding of what university would mean to him. What he would be giving up to meet that commitment on a Sunday. All he knew when he accepted it was going to school and living with his parents. So you could say it was a bit of an unfair contract.

I also think mandating something is a sure fire way to make a young person not do it. They've spent the last 18 years at home and school being told what to do, cajoled with carrot and stick. You can't blame them for wanting self determination.

It's also quite difficult for wider family members to have meaningful relationships with young adults. They are so focused on their own age group. It seems a shame that OP appears to be shutting the door on that possibility by misunderstanding his age group.

OPs sister has nothing to do with it - nephew is a grown man and it’s up to him to keep his commitment or not.

Don’t rush to automatically blame a woman for a man’s actions.

I don't even think he doesn't want to do it. It's just lower on the list of things he wants to do on a Sunday.

But you're right OP - if the ask was to mow the lawn or whatever, then it would be seen as a fair exchange. But having a dinner made for you and just having to eat it and be sociable with family for a couple of hours is not.

Yawn! Sometimes women have culpability in a situation - she's his mum and OP is her sister! If this was an arrangement made on dad's side of the family I'd be saying that dad needs to ensure his son didn't take advantage of the aunt!

Parents are also considered to be financially responsible for their adult dc when it comes to the purposes of student finance. Rent costs parents a lot of money when their dc are at uni. So mum is also benefitting from this arrangement.

On the one hand we have posters saying he's young, can't be expected to commit to 2 hours once a week, poor boy needs to be freeee! Otoh, when it suits, he's a man!
Well men are expected to pay rent and if my son was getting a free home (which is worth thousands when you're a student), I (as his mum and also an indirect beneficiary of this arrangement) would absolutely be in his case about doing what he agreed to do. Or he could get a job and pay his own rent. Of course that might eat into poor boy's free time , but there you go.

My young adult kids have managed to maintain meaningful relationships with wider family. We are setting the bar far too low for our kids if we never expect anything of them.

What he would be giving up to meet that commitment on a Sunday.

I just don't understand this.

He would have to work to cover rent if he wasn't staying with me. That would mean giving up much more than a hour or so a week.

They've spent the last 18 years at home and school being told what to do, cajoled with carrot and stick. You can't blame them for wanting self determination.

And this is crazy. He had a choice, he could have gone to a different uni, or gone into halls.

No adult is free, we are all constrained by things in our lives.

We are setting the bar far too low for our kids if we never expect anything of them

I agree with this. And I read threads on here about a poster pulling their hair out because their 19year old has moved their boyfriend in and they both don't work, or pay anything, or clean up.

Don't be ridiculous. Him not having to pay rent gives him a lot more freedom than he otherwise would have had.

And it's really important to hold young people up to standards.

Exactly. You kindly and firmly ending the arrangement will be an excellent life lesson for him.

Well, she doesn't want him there. Not now.

But neither does she want to give free accommodation to someone who doesn't want to spend an hour a week with her. Fair enough!

As for him working for OP in exchange, I wouldn't want a disinterested 18 year old mauling my garden / house, either.

I think we would have really fallen out if that was the case.

If he had to work for the rent I would expect the job to be done properly, there would be no point in him doing half a job and then me paying someone to do it properly afterwards.

But the reality is he wouldn't have done it.

He sounds very much one of life’s ‘takers’.

How is he doing in his studies?

And I wonder who is paying the rent next year (well, I mean in 2 months)? He out of his loan or by working? Or parents?

OP, I hope you will not be strong armed by family to allow him to return.
He needs a lesson in life's realities.

My children worked through university, like all of their friends.

They have friends that work long hours to pay for accommodation.

They certainly would have loved the deal you offered.
His future accommodation is no longer your concern.

He sounds spoiled and entitled.

OP you’ve posted a lot about why you think it’s important for him to keep up his side of the agreement (reasonable), but you keep dodging questions about what you and your dh gain from this Sunday night rule.

It costs you even more money, on top of what you’ve lost from not being able to rent out the caravan, it takes more of your free time to cook the meals. So to have kept it going, it must benefit you/your DH in some way. You must gain from this, but you keep answering the question about “should he keep to his agreement” when asked what you gain from this.

I can just conclude you don’t like to think about it, or you have and you don’t want to type it out because it looks really bad/odd.

You care about the Sunday night dinners. They are a big deal for you. They are worth £1k a month per person to you. You value them. Why?

(Don’t answer about nephew, what he could get from the dinners, what benefit for him about learning to pay your way or keep to agreements, this is a question about you.)

I have. We enjoy it. It is that simple. Eating together is one of the oldest rituals, something that has been done in all civilisations.

It has allowed us to develop friendships, keep connections. I know more of my children's friends because over the years they have joined us, I know my family better for it. My children grew up seeing their grandparents every weekend, and often their cousins, it keeps us connected.

We all work long hours, this has given us a space to connect, whilst spending time together at a meal.

For those that are living rent free, there has to be a divide, because otherwise why do I charge the others, there are people renting here that deserve a break far more than my family do, but I'm not a commune or a charity, it is a business where we work hard to continue to allow us the privileges that we have.

You say it costs money and takes my free time- both are true but I don't see either of those things as negatives. It isn't unusual to enjoy cooking, whilst some meals do take a lot of work, others are quick, or my husband does them.

That's.... that's literally what OP is doing.

She had no way of knowing that when nephew said "yes, I will eat with you so you don't need to charge me rent" he actually meant "no, I won't eat with you".

I understand all your points but somehow still find your one demand weirdly controlling.
I would understand a demand or demands of some description to identify those who get free accommodation, but insisting on their company at a scheduled weekly meal is too much. It’s cult-like. And the fact that it’s mandated also undermines its aim of creating a ‘family’ type scenario.
It really sits very badly with me despite empathising with your need to justify the free lets.

It's not a demand. Absolutely no-one is obliged to do it.

It's a condition. There is a difference.

It's an odd condition, to be sure. But it's one that was agreed to and reneged upon.

You have it back to front.

The weekly meal isn't payment for rent.

Instead, the housing is offered to those who are family enough to eat together on a regular basis.

Eating together like this as an extended family is really, really common in so many cultures. It was really common in the UK until very recently, and I think we are a lot worse off for having gotten rid of it.

That’s not the situation here though. People who wouldn’t normally go for Sunday lunch, apart from perhaps very occasionally as part of a bigger ‘family friends’ scenario, are being mandated to attend a Sunday ‘family lunch’ or else they need to pay for their accommodation. That’s the deal. And it’s weird af.

But that's my point. That regular Sunday dinner ( or whatever) used to be a regular committment with wider family, and still is in many places in the world.

In shifting it to "only very occasionally" as a society, I think we've lost a lot. You just aren't as connected to people you don't see as often.