To think that Starmer must regret taking the knee for George Floyd?

[Sausagenbacon]

Surely public figures must realise that making empty performative gestures will come back to haunt them at some point?

The "progressive left" (& yes I do include KS and his Govt in that term) has always been big on "gesture politics".

(The right on the other hand prefers "soundbites" - looking at you Cameron).

I think that taking a stand against a Police Force using excessive force, and killing sometime in the process of doing that, is no bad thing.

Acknowledging institutional racism is no bad thing.

Being anti-racist is no bad thing.

Recognising White Privilege, and, Male privilege are no bad things.

The only people who seem to get upset about these things are those who have spent centuries enjoying that privilege, and don’t like other people getting a slice of the pie.

Well said.

Should he regret performative gestures like laying a wreathe at the cenotaph on Remembrance Sunday, bowing to the king to open parliament, laying wreaths on D day, and laying flowers at the Southport memorial the day after the attack?

Or is it just performative gestures in honour of murdered black people you think he should regret?

I couldn't have told you whether Keir Starmer and David Lammy did Take the Knee for George Floyd or not - the first I read heard anything about this was the outrage posts on MN.

I think it's a total disgrace the way some people are trying to use the tragic death of Henry Nowak to fan the flames of Racism . Instead of wanting this tragedy to address and rectify the problems it revealed they are intent on exacerbating racial conflict in our society.

Why anyone even thinks Taking the knee in the context if Henry's death is even appropriate is an absolute mystery to me. And whilst I'm all for holding politicians to account I think pointing the finger at them over Taking the Knee is malicious and manufactured outrage designed to cause trouble for the most nefarious of reasons.

👏 Exactly this.

This

Gestures are a big part of politics. But it was appalling judgment for anyone but especially a former DPP to side with a movement that was driving race-based criminal rioting that had already led to a dozen or so deaths before he knelt, was contravening Covid restrictions, and was calling for police defunding (which predictably led to a big rise in murders where it was tried, mostly of black people). All to honour the memory of a career criminal.

And this. Apparently it’s wrong to say that only women have cervix.

His stupidity knows no bounds. What a clown.

This

Just in case you wanted to see the two clowns in action on their knees.

www.telegraph.co.uk/columnists/2024/01/23/keir-starmer-take-knee-culture-wars-blm-rnli-national-trust/

There are many ways of taking a stand against those things that don’t involve explicitly endorsing the appalling corrupt BLM movement, and implicitly their riots that took so many lives, destroyed so many neighbourhoods and their de-policing that led to so many additional murders.

He chose a symbol that was explicitly theirs and tagged a tweet with their name (capitalized).

It’s the difference between holding a minute’s silence for Nowak and doing so with a Roman salute and EDL tag.

Criminal race rioting is bad whichever team is doing it, and whether it’s fashionable in your circles or not.

Precisely! 👏
Why are some 'performative gestures' wonderful and appropriate, and some apparently not? OP, if you can explain that would help a lot.

Let’s not forget that actively chose to endorse an organization, BLM, which was corruption racket. Embezzlement, stealing and outright crooked behavior. Straight out of the far left playbook.

Oh this one is easy.

You surely aren’t arguing that because some gestures are benign all gestures are benign?

Hear hear.

Apologies, just seen you may be still at preschool.

Well, gesture are things we do to show how we feel or what we believe. They represent things.

Some things that people believe are good and healthy.

Some are bad and harmful.

So if someone does a gesture, we should try to learn what it means and then we can decide whether it’s a good gesture or a bad one.

And yet when it's a boy in Southampton, we "mustn't politicise" it. And how dare the US comment, it's meddling.

I'm asking OP why she picked on this one, which to me, is benign. There are issues with any movements at the extremities but BLM is mostly benign.

Sure — that’s a different point though from the one you made (and which would have triggered my rather sarcastic response that just crossed with your one!)

There are plenty of good reasons to get upset about BLM. Massive embezzlement and corruption of funds given by supporters, many of whom no doubt not rich. Encouraging rioting that led to around two dozen deaths. Destruction of neighbourhoods and businesses, mostly poor ones, with $1-2bn in damage. Stoking of racial tensions in an already divided nation. Flouting public health restrictions mid-pandemic. Pushing a police-defunding line that led to a big rise in murders (mostly of blacks) where it was tried.

What ‘slice of the pie’ did BLM bring black people? Most of the harms mentioned above fell on black people. BLM was a curse.

This is so ridiculous. No individual lives for centuries (and obviously especially not a young man like Henry Nowak, RIP, failed by this system) and in fact 'white privilege' is in fact only rich white privilege. There are plenty of white people - a larger number than those who had any kind of privilege - who were in the workhouses when Britain had an empire. Dying of TB and other horrible diseases, Extremely high child mortality. They were not any better off than poor people in other countries and died, in their thousands, in extremely nasty conditions. That's the majority experience of the majority of white people in this country for all of time. The idea these people, as a group, had any kind of privilege is laughable.

'Anti-racism' is the new racism. It divides and does not unite, it gives the elite (the same as the wealthy landowners and gentry of previous times) the power to decide who is 'worthy' and who is not, basically. They've just flipped it around as to who gets the knee on the neck or the back, basically. So they can pretend they're good people.

Kemi Badenoch gets it right, and I'm sure she's experience real racism in her life. But she doesn't use it to get one over on everyone else, all the people who just happen to have a different skin colour to her but aren't in fact racist. She shows far more willingness to show respect to all, give regard based on behaviour not any group identity, and embrace difference than Starmer who blows with the wind.

Henry Nowak's murderer knew exactly what to say to deflect blame. He'd obviously done it before. The family were still doing it in court. It has obviously been a successful tactic for a long time. Whilst what they did was despicable (and what the son did was murder) it's the fault of the police, politicians, and government institutions that this obvious attempt to avoid accountability worked and lead to situation that may have resulted in the avoidable death of a young man.

It may have worked over the longer term if Henry hadn't died because it's a bit difficult to argue you're the victim when the person you're claiming has oppressed you is dead.

Quote : "...calling for police defunding (which predictably led to a big rise in murders where it was tried, mostly of black people). "

Where was defunding tried that led to a big increase in murders ?

I can't recall seeing this anywhere.

What white privilege do white working class boys get??

Ridiculous sweeping generalisations like this do nothing.

The UK Prime Minister taking the knee for a career criminal on drugs in the US was utterly ridiculous and totally performative virtue signaling. To compare this with placing a wreath on the cenotaph to remember those who gave their lives for us is laughable and insulting.

Im sure there are some terrible police behaviour in the US but it’s not relevant to us and we forget that for police in the US every interaction is possible life and death due to the widespread ownership of guns. If you don’t want get shot comply with what the police are asking you

Yet he still gets his fan girls hanging on every word! Add selective misogyny to the left's hypocrisy list. @Sausagenbacon there are a few things he did as leader of the opposition that I'm glad are coming back to bite him on the arse. Shows he never learns when he holds a two minutes silence for George Floyd in the Commons. If he was consistent on prejudice and discrimination I would have voted differently. The man has no backbone but plenty of flop.