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To think that Starmer must regret taking the knee for George Floyd?

167 replies

Sausagenbacon · Yesterday 08:03

Surely public figures must realise that making empty performative gestures will come back to haunt them at some point?

OP posts:
RedTagAlan · Yesterday 13:46

GeneralPeter · Yesterday 12:49

Thank you. I do appreciate that.

Here's some articles about Minneapolis. The story is a bit tangled as it tried a de-fund/restructure drive post Floyd but then tried to reverse a lot of it in a referendum that the defund side narrowly lost. However, there was a big attrition of police officers and a very large rise in crime including murder rates:
https://time.com/6180605/minneapolis-police-reform-george-floyd-murder/
https://edition.cnn.com/2022/09/25/us/minneapolis-crime-defund-invs/index.html

This is a study that looks at NYC and finds an effect (afraid it's only to the summary) https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/15614263.2023.2235056

Floyd coincided with Covid so it can be hard to disentangle effects, but the Ferguson effect is pretty robustly documented (i.e. the effect of anti-police protests on subsequent policing intensity especially of black suspects/black areas, and rise in crime).

Yup. It is going to be difficult to untangle to get anything solid.

I was reading an article a while back how as crime goes down, government want to cut the budget on police. So in theory, if crime rate was directly related to police spend, as spending goes up and down, then crime rate would follow the same approx curve, but would lag. But crime rate and police spend are not directly related. Because as you say, lets throw covid in.

The Fergusson effect yes. But that is not related to spend. That is withdrawal of policing from a segment of society. " The black folk are protesting, so stay away from the black folk". So a black woman phoning the cops because her ex threatened to kill her is probably not treated the same as in normal times.

And the list of variables goes on as you know. The type of policing, economic demographics, and how the police spent the budget.

And that is what defund the police was all about. Changing the style of police. From being heavy handed in tanks, going in guns drawn, to spending a reduced budget on cops with guns and spending more on the root causes.

And that last bit, the root causes would take time. And it can't really happen with Trump in the Chair. Because he tells the states to spend more on heavy handed cops or he will defund the state.

So yup. I agree. Accurate studies are near impossible to do.

GeneralPeter · Yesterday 15:30

@RedTagAlan

Yes, hard to disentangle police spending because even if high police spend drives low crime (which I believe), low crime also drives low police spend.

Another thing that makes it hard to assess 'defund' fairly is that it meant so many different things. From fairly sensible ideas like better mental health support given an eye-catching label, to pretty wild utopian ideas about police abolitionism.

(I actually think it was tactically catastrophic to give sensible ideas from the liberal centre-left 'eye-catching' radical labels during the woke era. It meant conceding a lot of very bad premises to the progressives, reinforcing the idea that there is only one acceptable paradigm from which to argue for positive change, and then when many of the crazier ideas turned out to be crazy, discredited the supposedly sensible left. I'm a centre-right liberal not a centre-left one, but I'd settle for good evidenced policy based on widely-shared principles over this pendulum swing between the worst left ideas and the worst right ones).

RedTagAlan · Yesterday 15:57

GeneralPeter · Yesterday 15:30

@RedTagAlan

Yes, hard to disentangle police spending because even if high police spend drives low crime (which I believe), low crime also drives low police spend.

Another thing that makes it hard to assess 'defund' fairly is that it meant so many different things. From fairly sensible ideas like better mental health support given an eye-catching label, to pretty wild utopian ideas about police abolitionism.

(I actually think it was tactically catastrophic to give sensible ideas from the liberal centre-left 'eye-catching' radical labels during the woke era. It meant conceding a lot of very bad premises to the progressives, reinforcing the idea that there is only one acceptable paradigm from which to argue for positive change, and then when many of the crazier ideas turned out to be crazy, discredited the supposedly sensible left. I'm a centre-right liberal not a centre-left one, but I'd settle for good evidenced policy based on widely-shared principles over this pendulum swing between the worst left ideas and the worst right ones).

Yup. I am left, and I agree.

The people who should be driving police policy are the good cops who go into high crime areas and get good results, without breaking laws or messing with civil rights.

The people who should not be driving police policy are the politicians. Left or right. Their job is to get the money to the services that need it.

CurlewKate · Yesterday 16:32

Why would he regret taking a stand against police violence? If you’re thinking that there is any similarity between the deaths of George Floyd and Harry Novak you are very much mistaken.

Sausagenbacon · Yesterday 16:50

Because it happened in the USA, where they have very different issues.

OP posts:
Clavinova · Yesterday 17:34

Roomonthe3rdfloor · Yesterday 09:56

Agree, wealth has nothing to do with it!

A small example, when the England team lost the euros or world cup cant remember which one, the very rich white players were not racially abused online but the very rich black players were, their money didn’t protect them. Kano a rapper (from the uk and rich) got stopped because he was driving a very expensive Mercedes and questioned where he got it from, he was in the bloody advert for said car!

Kano a rapper (from the uk and rich) got stopped because he was driving a very expensive Mercedes and questioned where he got it from, he was in the bloody advert for said car!

I think you are remembering a scene from a music video, although the rapper did advertise a Mercedes some years before that.

I remember when a young David Beckham was vilified and blamed for England crashing out of the 1998 World Cup after receiving a red card;

Beckham turned from media darling to one of the most hated men in England. He received death threats, an image of a Beckham effigy hanging outside a pub found infamy, while the Mirror’s headline of ’10 Heroic Lions, One Stupid Boy’ was followed by a David Beckham dartboard.

https://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/beckham-thankful-social-media-1998-world-cup-red-card/ngaxbyhnu5l61nlmgpi9cf3nh

Roomonthe3rdfloor · Yesterday 18:42

Clavinova · Yesterday 17:34

Kano a rapper (from the uk and rich) got stopped because he was driving a very expensive Mercedes and questioned where he got it from, he was in the bloody advert for said car!

I think you are remembering a scene from a music video, although the rapper did advertise a Mercedes some years before that.

I remember when a young David Beckham was vilified and blamed for England crashing out of the 1998 World Cup after receiving a red card;

Beckham turned from media darling to one of the most hated men in England. He received death threats, an image of a Beckham effigy hanging outside a pub found infamy, while the Mirror’s headline of ’10 Heroic Lions, One Stupid Boy’ was followed by a David Beckham dartboard.

https://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/beckham-thankful-social-media-1998-world-cup-red-card/ngaxbyhnu5l61nlmgpi9cf3nh

No im not thinking of that music video, I remember it being on his instagram im pretty sure as I remember talking to my boyfriend about it

JHound · Yesterday 18:46

It wasn’t about George Floyd.

Chaotica · Yesterday 18:49

ExtraOnions · Yesterday 08:24

I think that taking a stand against a Police Force using excessive force, and killing sometime in the process of doing that, is no bad thing.

Acknowledging institutional racism is no bad thing.

Being anti-racist is no bad thing.

Recognising White Privilege, and, Male privilege are no bad things.

The only people who seem to get upset about these things are those who have spent centuries enjoying that privilege, and don’t like other people getting a slice of the pie.

This.

Clavinova · Yesterday 19:28

Roomonthe3rdfloor · Yesterday 18:42

No im not thinking of that music video, I remember it being on his instagram im pretty sure as I remember talking to my boyfriend about it

Edited

I think you are mistaken.

Gruntled1 · Yesterday 20:09

Sausagenbacon · Yesterday 08:03

Surely public figures must realise that making empty performative gestures will come back to haunt them at some point?

I don’t think that Starmer has any self-awareness, whatsoever.

His previous Floyd performative nonsense can simply be added to all his other failures before, and during his time as PM.

History will judge our hapless PM very harshly.

CurlewKate · Yesterday 21:38

Sausagenbacon · Yesterday 08:03

Surely public figures must realise that making empty performative gestures will come back to haunt them at some point?

“Empty performative gestures”. Like wearing a Poppy?

Whammyammy · Yesterday 21:46

Starmer takes the knee for a drug addicted criminal from the across the Atlantic that dies during his rightful arrest, the world is a better place without the likes of George Floyd, regardless of skin colour l.

Yet, Starrner doesn't take the knee for a British boy murdered on the streets of Britain , virtue signalling was his only reason.

Not my leader. He couldn't care less about uk citizens and fools follow him.

Whammyammy · Yesterday 21:47

JHound · Yesterday 18:46

It wasn’t about George Floyd.

Pretty sure it was

SouthernFashionista · Yesterday 21:52

Anyone who took the knee for that man needs their head examined. He was a criminal with a violent past.

SouthernFashionista · Yesterday 21:54

PrincessOfPreschool · Yesterday 08:45

I'm asking OP why she picked on this one, which to me, is benign. There are issues with any movements at the extremities but BLM is mostly benign.

Benign? On the contrary, it’s an utterly corrupt organisation.

Whammyammy · Yesterday 22:06

Rusdkijj · Yesterday 11:41

George Floyd was a horrible horrible man. Some people say that he actually died from a drug overdose though?

George Floyd wrote his own destiny. The world is a better place without him. What's next? Statues of Fred West/Myra Hindley? Can't belive fools knelt for such scum

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