to think DM is unfair to ban the twins from visiting?

[timetoban]

My sister has four children: an 6-year-old, a 5-year-old and 2-year-old twins.
The older two are easy visitors. They tend to sit quietly, chat a bit and spend a lot of time on their screens. The twins, however, are typical two-year-olds. They run around, make noise, have the occasional tantrum and create a bit of mess.
DM is very house-proud and likes everything neat, tidy and pristine.

She has become increasingly irritated by the twins whenever they visit. She complains that they don't sit nicely, don't behave properly and are too noisy. Personally, I think her expectations of two-year-olds are unrealistic.

The latest development is that she has told DSis that the twins are no longer welcome at her house. She says DSis can bring the older two, but not the younger ones.

The problem is that DSis's husband works long hours and isn't always available to stay home with the twins. So in practice, this means DSis often can't visit at all, or has to choose between seeing DM and staying with her younger children.

DM says it's her house and she's entitled to decide who comes into it. DSis feels hurt that two of her children have effectively been singled out and excluded.

One two year old was a nightmare in my mum’s house constantly trying to grab ornaments, chase the dog, dropping food etc. so I can’t imagine how tough it is with twins AND two older ones as well. At least your mum is being honest that she finds it too much. I rarely took mine to my mum’s house as a toddler - either she’d come to me or we’d meet at places like the park or local soft play cafe.

Or she might enjoy the peace and quiet.
On MN adult children set boundaries and grandparents should be desperate to see them understand any circumstances.
Boundaries work both ways.

You couldn’t tolerate it for an hour or so even? Would you ban them?

I think you and sister need to visit each other.

Your mum isn’t interested and has made it clear young children don’t work for her.

She may decide in a few months/ years that she feels differently.

Not that I'd be banning my GC but at 70 I think not everyone at that age has the patience to deal with young DC that they had in their 20s-50s....I'm mid 60s now and am pretty shattered when the DG go home. It's pretty full on some days, especially in this heat for all of us.

I think your dsis should just stop seeing your mother. Why on earth does she want to go see someone so wholly unsupportive?!

Easy solution for your sister, just stay away and wish your mum well in her old age with clean carpets and radio silence for company 🙄

she’s set the boundaries she’s entitled to. If she loses out on relationships then that’s the natural consequences.

Point out to her she’s not going to see her much then and then that’s her choice. Shame for your sister though. I wouldn’t be putting myself out to visit.

It sounds like your mother is behaving “in character” rather than out of character and neither of you have realized that she’s actually just profoundly selfish.

Why don’t you try to have a conversation about that? It’s definitely the only conversation I would be interested in having.

It is one thing to realise you can no longer cope with small children. But to expect other people to anticipate your preferences and provide them regardless of the inconvenience, actually demonstrates you’re a bit of a cunt.

My MIL is mid 70’s and has looked after my children when I have been at work today, most of the time they are delightful. About 20% of the time they squabble, bash each other and generally behave like heathens…
When I thanked her she asked when I needed her again, I said that they could be a handful so I try not to ask her too often but that a day or 2 during the summer holidays would be super helpful.
Her reply was that yes on occasion they are revolting, but that she was their Grandmother so it was irrelevant, she loved them anyway and that she remembered how their Dad was with his siblings at the same age.
If either of my children’s grandparents said I couldn’t bring the smallest due up mess/noise etc then I simply wouldn’t visit, even if it meant I didn’t see them often.
Small children are noisy, they don’t want to sit still for hours and they also have fairly short attention spans.
Your Mum can choose who comes into the house but equally people choose who they visit, and sadly with your Mums attitude she will find herself very isolated.
If she won’t visit your sister the only other thing is to meet on neutral territory, I tend to meet my siblings and nieces/nephews at a national trust place close by rather than us all try and fit into a house. The children can run/ wander around and we have a coffee/cake, we invite Grandparents as well as they usually choose to join us.

I think it's fair enough. Not everybody wants noisy messy toddlers creating havoc and destruction

Your mother has every right to do this- it is her house and she can make the rules there.

but in banning the twins - surely she realises that she is cutting off contact with her daughter? If she is fine with this - so be it.

but give it a few weeks and I bet mother will be saying ‘why haven’t you come and seen me?’

mother must know the twins and her daughter come as a package as far to young to leave alone and no one else to care for them .

mother has made her rules and will have to live with the lonely consequences or see some sense .

But it’s clearly not the odd hour or two, is it?

The OP says that the adult daughter is a SAHP and visits her mum often. (Presumably because she can’t cope 24/7 with 4 v young children and a DH who works v long hours and needs an extra pair of hands to help out?)

If the adult daughter needs her mums help, then it makes a lot more sense to let the grandparent have the two older calmer children on their own whilst the parent focuses on the toddler twins.

A win:win surely?

If she is a bit of a recluse I can see why the noise of 4 children could be too much.

It might be that whilst her DH is busy with his mum then visits stop and then they can start again and maybe just the older DC visit gran until the twins calm down a bit or visit at weekends when DH can come too.

I think if you’re going to make a decision to have 4 kids you might not be welcome everywhere and have to accept that. I appreciate you can’t help having twins. I have a pair myself and they were very hard work at age 2.

That said - my parents were always happy to have my twins plus my sibling’s kids who are a couple of years younger. So yes that meant sometimes 4 kids under 5.

My parents babysat, had them after school / had them whole days in the holidays and they looked after them together so they managed. Not everyone has fit and active grandparents like this.

It’s her house, she can ban them if she wants.

However in doing so she is actively damaging her relationship with her grandchildren and her daughter. If she thinks that’s a good trade off then good luck to her. But she can’t then complain that your sister never comes to visit and that she’s not close with her grandchildren. She made her bed. Mess can be cleaned and tidied, noise from small children doesn’t last forever, it’s a bit more difficult to repair relationships.

We have similar with PIL, as a SIL lives at home and does not tolerate well behaved but normal children. No touching anything, including doors and surfaces. No walking on the grass. Etc. there are significant diagnosed MH issues but no treatment and everyone in the family walks on eggshells to avoid explosions. I do feel sorry for them, but they also live nearby and essentially have no relationship with DC and a weirdly isolated life.

Having a 5 and 6 year old mainly on screens isn’t great. Doesn’t she want to interact with her GC?

To all the people saying ‘it’s not your DM’s fault your DSis can’t handle/is struggling with the kids’.

I had two under 2 and when they were 3 and 2 they were absolutely feral (they are much better at 5 and 4!) I was 10/10 not coping, struggling, not handling their behaviour.

Do you know what my mum did? Invited me over MORE. She booked days off on my non working days so I wasn’t alone in the house with two crazy toddlers who never stopped moving/making noise.

So yeah, maybe OP’s DSis isn’t coping. That’s not a reason to not have her over… it’s the opposite.

(And funnily enough I’m tapping this out in my mum’s kitchen while the 5yo and 4yo watch tv - so it’s all come full circle haha).

Well, this sounds completely predictable.

your dm does not have to have the twins at her house. It’s her house and what she says goes.

but the outcome will be that she doesn’t see her grandchildren or her child.

presumably she’s ok with this.

How old is your mother? How well is she? I find my 2 year old nephew tiring, and I am only in my 40s and not ill, and there's just 1 of him....

Love him dearly, and he's very well behaved, but still a toddler

If my mother said this yo be I’d tell her to fuck off!
Also, the children being given screens up shut them up is poor parenting.
both your dm and dsis are out of order

Well, your sister is at liberty to not visit at all until the twins are older and granny will have to miss out on all the grandchildren. I had this with my parents for a short while. We had to cancel one visit and the next two were much shorter. That took care of about a year (they lived a long way from us) and, fortunately, by the following year both they and the DC had calmed down! I did think it was a bit OTT but I made a point of trying not getting worked up about it as they were well into their 70s and becoming less resilient.

I wouldn’t want to visit someone so hostile to 2 toddlers!