to think DM is unfair to ban the twins from visiting?

[timetoban]

My sister has four children: an 6-year-old, a 5-year-old and 2-year-old twins.
The older two are easy visitors. They tend to sit quietly, chat a bit and spend a lot of time on their screens. The twins, however, are typical two-year-olds. They run around, make noise, have the occasional tantrum and create a bit of mess.
DM is very house-proud and likes everything neat, tidy and pristine.

She has become increasingly irritated by the twins whenever they visit. She complains that they don't sit nicely, don't behave properly and are too noisy. Personally, I think her expectations of two-year-olds are unrealistic.

The latest development is that she has told DSis that the twins are no longer welcome at her house. She says DSis can bring the older two, but not the younger ones.

The problem is that DSis's husband works long hours and isn't always available to stay home with the twins. So in practice, this means DSis often can't visit at all, or has to choose between seeing DM and staying with her younger children.

DM says it's her house and she's entitled to decide who comes into it. DSis feels hurt that two of her children have effectively been singled out and excluded.

I mean, she’s free to do whatever she wants in her own house, but in your sister’s place I’d probably be like “see you in about 3 years then”.

My mother is the same. Annoyed if she has visits, annoyed if she doesn’t. My 12 year old cousin went there with his father a while ago and apparently he was “a little terror”.
…….. he changed the tv channel.

This. Easy answer mum, none of us are coming round

Don't see a problem there...

How often does your Dsis visit your DM with her DC?

You DM is absolutely entitled to decide who visits her home (as unreasonable as she's being as she does have unrealistic expectations of 2 year olds). However she will have to accept the consequence of her decision, not seeing her grandchildren or child at least not very often or unless she visits their home (and to be honest if my DM said she wanted to see only some of my children and not the others she'd not be seeing any of them or me)

OP your DM will become more of a recluse if she pushes your sister away like this. As long as your DM realises that's what she is doing then it's her choice though, she's entitled to a quiet life... And I suppose as the twins grow up and settle down a bit your sister can start visiting with all the children again if she wants to.

Was she like this when you were growing up? Easily overstimulated, insisting on you and your sister playing quietly and not making any mess etc? I can relate if so. My mum used to get annoyed if we 'walked too heavily' upstairs above her as it was too loud and she'd freak out if we accidentally knocked over a glass of milk or what! I'm not saying kids should be able to be loud and wild at all times, but they should be allowed to be children!

It's definitely had a negative effect on me (e.g. being brought up to think I need to be quiet and not inconvenience anyone, a textbook people pleaser!), maybe warn your sister and remind yourself to not become like your mother with your own children!

Absolutely. Your DM can put away any precious breakables. I know someone whose MIL was like this with all three - initially visibly wincing when they ventured near anything breakable. Then she suggested not bringing the youngest. Her DH started to protest but my friend had just had enough - she grabbed their coats, herded them all out and never went back.

Yeah I get very little child free time too. Certainly don’t use it on someone who whinges about my kids and won’t make the trip to come see me!

(as a result my mother had no relationship with my kids and they haven’t even noticed she’s died)

Once a week.

There is a real life beyond MN.

DM does not have to be desperate to see her grandchildren. She has set her boundary of the twins not visiting. Sister will respect her boundary and hardly come round much anymore.

To be fair Ive not read all the answers to your post,
but how old is your mum Op?
Could it be possible she has the onset of dementia/Alzheimer's?

Could they meet up outside when the weather is nice? Kids can let off steam and adults can watch on and chat.

It's very foolish because it'll permanently damage her relationship with her daughter bland all her kids.

Once the twins become old enough to be 'tolerable' no doubt none of them will have an interest in visiting her. What with the fact she shunned them simply for being two people who are two years old!

Early 70s - seems to be fine cognitively. Does dementia/Alzheimers make you ban some of your grandchildren from visiting?

I've got 5 kids and I don't let them make mess in other people's homes at any age? Any way point is is that it doesn't really sound like your mum wants to see them. The older kids sit on screens so aren't being interacted with and the younger ones are being played with by nan or they wouldn't be making a mess.
Does your sister go there often? Does she expect to sit whilst your mum runs around after the kids?

I wouldn't have someone's kids in my house whatever relation they are if it irritated me.

Your sister should suggest your mum visits at her house where she is set up for toddlers.
If your mum doesn't visit then that's also problem solved.

Sounds like your mum cba with any of them.

Well your Mum will lose her relationship with your sister her kids.

Which seems sad for her, but self inflicted.

And extremely sad and hurtful for your sister. I would be heartbroken and feel incredibly hurt.

She can't take the two elder and leave the twins out - by the time they are 3 they will know they have been rejected and the older two favoured,

I don't know what you can do except be clear and honest with your Mum (and possibly, if you felt like it, offer to help your mum manage when the children are there) , and support your DSis as best you can. Be a good aunty.

Its hard without hearing both sides on the surface dm is being awful but I have relatives and friends kids who I hate coming round my house as their parents just don't parent them and I don't want my house wrecked.

Your DSis needs to tell your M that they come as a four. She either sees all of them or none. Ball straight back into her court

You could ban them.

Hey hang on. You’re obviously super invested in this thread from your number of shouty posts but OP hasn’t said anything at all about her own kids. That’s your assumption and a rather ridiculous one at that.

They technically are they don't get invited round

Did your mum have just the two of you?

If it’s literally just two year olds being two year olds and it’s genuinely tidied up when it’s time to go, your mum is being so unreasonable imo. If she doesn’t like the noise and mess in her home, then visit sister in hers. If she doesn’t like the noise and mess full stop, then don’t see the grandkids at all but excluding two for just being normal two year olds and essentially having a two tier system for grandchildren is awful. Honestly if I was your sister I just wouldn’t be visiting again full stop.

I have relatives and friends kids who I hate coming round my house as their parents just don't parent them and I don't want my house wrecked.

How is this a ban?

You sound nice If you were a loving grandparent, wouldn’t you make the effort to toddler proof your home to keep them safe?