to think DM is unfair to ban the twins from visiting?

[timetoban]

My sister has four children: an 6-year-old, a 5-year-old and 2-year-old twins.
The older two are easy visitors. They tend to sit quietly, chat a bit and spend a lot of time on their screens. The twins, however, are typical two-year-olds. They run around, make noise, have the occasional tantrum and create a bit of mess.
DM is very house-proud and likes everything neat, tidy and pristine.

She has become increasingly irritated by the twins whenever they visit. She complains that they don't sit nicely, don't behave properly and are too noisy. Personally, I think her expectations of two-year-olds are unrealistic.

The latest development is that she has told DSis that the twins are no longer welcome at her house. She says DSis can bring the older two, but not the younger ones.

The problem is that DSis's husband works long hours and isn't always available to stay home with the twins. So in practice, this means DSis often can't visit at all, or has to choose between seeing DM and staying with her younger children.

DM says it's her house and she's entitled to decide who comes into it. DSis feels hurt that two of her children have effectively been singled out and excluded.

Who is her? Do you mean DM? What help does DM need? My sister looks after the children herself when she visits.

YANBU

She is being unfair and your sister should go along with her rules and just not bring the kids at all.

It is your mother’s home and she can reap what she sows.

She complains then it could be easily pointed out that her son-in-law isn’t available and toddlers cannot be left alone.

Well if I were your sister, I wouldn't bother visiting her at all!

If she doesn't visit, it means she will never see her as DM will not visit my sister (or me).

...sis keep an eye on the twins as much as she can but it is not easy with four children.

Sounds she is vaguely "doing her best", but not doing well enough. Can she just visit with her DH for the time being so the 4 children are managed by two adults? Could you help?

It's not your DM'S fault that your Dsis has more children than she can reasonably manage.

Grandma doesn’t want the grandchildren to visit? Your sister should just accept that. If grandma wants to see any of the grandkids, it will have to be outside of that house.

Dsis does not work so will often go in the daytime. I work so I can't be around and I have DC of my own.

Her DH works long hours and doesn't get back till 9pm. That is too late to take the DC to visit. Her DH's DM is in hospital so he is using any spare time to visit her.

If she only wants to see two, then she doesn't get to see any. I dont know why your sister would even consider visiting with just two, very unfair.

So let's just address that for a second. Your DM won't visit your sisters house, and is refusing to allow the twins to visit, so your DM is actively saying she doesn't want to see the twins.

Let that sink in and ask yourself why anyone would want to be around your mother if that's her attitude.

Why doesn’t DM visit her DC/DGC? Is she disabled?

This really wouldn’t be a dilemma for me. Your mum has her (oddly high) standards for behaviour and has banned 2 of her grandchildren from her home for being normal toddlers- as is her right. This means the other children can’t visit her. So that won’t happen as much. Could call it being fucked by the dildo of consequence. Certainly nothing to feel bad about, especially if granny can visit all of the family at their home but she chooses not to.

We'll all see you in a couple of years or so mum, the twins should be a bit better behaved by then.

She is a bit of a recluse.

If is was your sis I would simply stop visiting. So horrible to say that the toddlers cannot visit because they do normal toddler stuff. And the older two can visit but must be sitting nicely /glued to screens. Awful !

That’s pretty awful. She cannot act surprised when her daughter doesn’t visit.

Mean and unfair. She'll probably moan in a few years that she's lonely and no one visits her.

If she doesn't like it, she doesn't like it. Your sister just has to accept it and not go over there anymore.

I largely agree with this. If your DSis is feeling generous, possibly she could suggest some less frequent meet ups in a third space (cafe, park etc), but I wouldn’t blame her if she wasn’t inclined to do this.

I think your mum is being absolutely horrible. I wouldn't visit if I was you or your sister and I'm really not one for going non contact. They are just young kids, and mum has an opportunity to be welcoming and kind (not even going as far as helping) and she is choosing not to. I wouldn't put myself through that and I wouldn't role model to my children that it's ok to be treated like this. At what point will the twins be deemed suitable for visits. It's horrible behaviour

Then it's time your DM learned the location of the nearest park and how to pack a picnic, isn't it?

She can't complain about the children being noisy if they're running about in the open air, the older two can get off screens and play and the twins can burn off some energy outdoors.

If she doesn't want to, well, then not seeing her grandchildren is on her, isn't it?

She can do this if she wishes. 4 years after one of the others was 2yrs old grandma is now 4 years older, probably more tired and less tolerant. On top of this there are 2 2 year olds running around this time. Perhaps grandma can go to them or they can meet somewhere until the twins are less of a handful ?

Yeah, than it's tough. However, it isn't your DM's doing.

The main issue is clear - Dsis can't manage the 4 children on her own well enough at the moment.

It doesn't make much sense to talk about fair/unfair here, at the first place it isn't fair to throw the issue at the DM's home when she can't cope with that.

Dsis has a choice now - huff and puff about "unfair" or understand your DM's limitations, limit the visits/prioritise going with her DH for now and take it as a phase, once the children calm down a bit/the older become able to help keeping them occupied, she can get back to more time.

No reason to make a big stand over something which might improve itself in a year.

It sounds like DM isnt going to get any more visits then! Whether she wants them or not is irrelevant as she’s made it impossible.

She doesn't want little kids running around her home and messing with her stuff and making messes. Her home is also not likely toddler and kid proofed.

Your sister can't handle all her kids for a visit by herself, that's her problem, not your mom's. She's allowed to set who can come to her house and she's had it with your sister's younger two.