to think it is acceptable to smack someone if they touch your body, even if they have dementia? Part 2

[haleey]

Continuing from previous thread:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5534178-to-think-it-is-acceptable-to-smack-someone-if-they-touch-your-body-even-if-they-have-dementia

I visit my grandad in a care home regularly and sometimes male residents will touch women unexpectedly. I’ve had my waist touched, boobs grabbed and one man touched my privates while smiling at me. I know they are ill and confused, but honestly I think people act as though women are supposed to just tolerate it because “they can’t help it”.

Part of this for me is that I have been assaulted before, so my reflex when someone suddenly touches me unexpectedly is to hit out before I even properly think. It is an automatic panic response.

Recently one resident suddenly grabbed me and I instinctively smacked his hand away. One of the staff immediately told me off and said “he can’t help it”. I understand that dementia affects behaviour and judgement, but I found it upsetting that the focus instantly became about him rather than acknowledging that I had just been touched without consent and panicked.

I’m not talking about beating vulnerable elderly people or deliberately hurting confused residents. But I also don’t think women should be expected to quietly accept unwanted touching because the person is elderly or cognitively impaired.

would you smack a person with learning disabilities?

why are there 2 threads?

I would if they touched me inappropriately.

No one is expecting you to quietly accept it but there are ways of dealing with it without hitting a vulnerable person.

absolutely

and why women in particular @haleey

I would be pushing them away and telling them off. My DF was in a care home and some of the male residents would make a beeline for me being a visitor. One chap I really tried to avoid as he tried a couple of times to grab me. The person who grabbed by boobs was told not to do it!

What else are you meant to do? Let them grope you, No staff around although I did speak to the Manager and she arranged that I meet DF in his room and lock the door! One chap keep banging on the door and I just ignored it.

As support worker I think the blame lies with the care provider.

Behaviour like this could be reduced with a bit of forward thinking - more support, an extra support worker, avoiding busy areas and working out the trigger for their behaviour.

Just because someone has a learning disability it doesn’t mean you have to give up your own autonomy.

Holding up your hands with a loud ‘NO’ should stop the behaviour.

However, you have the right to protect yourself. If your instinct is to slap their hand away then that’s what you do.

How often are women assaulted and asked ‘did you fight back’? That’s what I was asked when I was attacked. I’m not the only one.

Maybe hoping for different responses

The other one reached the maximum number of posts.

Really, how many?

For me this whole thing boils down to what can we realistically expect from untrained people who are unexpectedly put into difficult situations?

I don't think the swatting an offending hand reaction is even that unusual.

Agree with all of this!

1000 is the maximum

Wow, a 1000 posts and still not got anywhere

How often are women assaulted and asked ‘did you fight back’? That’s what I was asked when I was attacked. I’m not the only one.

On the previous thread, I was told to adapt my behaviour and questioned about where I was.

If these are people who are disinhibited by dementia or similar, you are going to have to take some measures to avoid this happening again though.

I think it pays to have your wits about you but women shouldn’t need to be on constant high-alert for SA.

The responsibility lays with the staff, and I include myself in that.

That said I worked in a busy nursing home (mostly dementia) and supported a man who had history (including prison time) for CSA.

The manager still thought it was appropriate to have playgroups and schools visit and allow him to sit them on his knee.

Nothing the staff said would convince the manager how dangerous this was as he presented as a ‘harmless old man’. He once knocked me out (we were understaffed); he was no way harmless. He was strong AF.

More education is needed around these situations. Or care homes to provide family rooms they could book for visits. One home I worked in families could ‘book’ the conservatory for uninterrupted visits.

Because she’s already filled the first one.

Yet you are still here

With lots of help from you 😂

I’ve been out all day, but have read and contributed to the previous thread. In my first post on that thread I pointed out that when I visit my DF in his nursing home I am always aware of where other residents are and what they’re doing or likely to do, and am always prepared to move away or alert staff if necessary. The OP has consistently rejected the idea that she should modify her own behaviour while in the nursing home - ie, take account of the fact that she is a visitor in a place which is home to vulnerable and ill adults, many of whom lack capacity.

This thread has been on my mind, particularly the fact that OP seems not to understand that nursing homes have their own particular environment in which the social norms of the outside world often do not prevail. It is because it is such a different environment that the OP does need to modify her behaviour and her perception of the residents.

I’m currently on holiday in Spain - a country with different norms and ways of doing things. If I were to adopt the OP’s approach to being in a nursing home to being here I would soon find myself in trouble by driving on the wrong side of the road, insisting on paying in pounds instead of euros and expecting everyone to understand English!

When you are somewhere where things are done differently it benefits everyone for you adapt to that environment - whether that’s a country or a nursing home.

And to appreciate that you are a visitor in someone else’s space.

I would also like to say that it has been thoroughly depressing to see up close how few people understand dementia and how it doesn’t just affect memory but instead takes away the whole person.

When I caught up on the previous thread I saw some comments along the lines of how was the OP to know whether or not the residents had dementia. I work on the assumption that the residents in my DF’s home do have dementia or some degree of cognitive impairment and that they may behave in unpredictable or inappropriate ways due to that.

Thinking about it, in all the time I’ve visited that nursing home, I can think of only two of the residents I’ve got to know who do have their wits about them, and they are both extremely frail.

@Seeingadistance the norms to which you refer are not comparable to s. assault - speaking Spanish and paying in Euros is not comparable to having one's private parts grabbed.