to think it is acceptable to smack someone if they touch your body, even if they have dementia? Part 2

[haleey]

Continuing from previous thread:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5534178-to-think-it-is-acceptable-to-smack-someone-if-they-touch-your-body-even-if-they-have-dementia

I visit my grandad in a care home regularly and sometimes male residents will touch women unexpectedly. I’ve had my waist touched, boobs grabbed and one man touched my privates while smiling at me. I know they are ill and confused, but honestly I think people act as though women are supposed to just tolerate it because “they can’t help it”.

Part of this for me is that I have been assaulted before, so my reflex when someone suddenly touches me unexpectedly is to hit out before I even properly think. It is an automatic panic response.

Recently one resident suddenly grabbed me and I instinctively smacked his hand away. One of the staff immediately told me off and said “he can’t help it”. I understand that dementia affects behaviour and judgement, but I found it upsetting that the focus instantly became about him rather than acknowledging that I had just been touched without consent and panicked.

I’m not talking about beating vulnerable elderly people or deliberately hurting confused residents. But I also don’t think women should be expected to quietly accept unwanted touching because the person is elderly or cognitively impaired.

Is it ok that someone was touched inappropriately no? And they can absolutely be upset, hurt, feel aggrieved etc. But no we dont get to hit back or lash out. I can understand an impulsive shock reaction almost, but not saying you would do it again. And generally most adults with capacity can override that shock reaction.

You can't always override a reflex action because of PTSD from sexual assault. It is not that simple.

Of course she is a victim if someone has touched her without consent. If someone with dementia picks up a knife and fatally stabs a person. Would that person be a victim?

So dies this mean that elderly women in a mixed sex residential home are constantly at risk of assault ?

Can we use the word swat as this is what OP is saying she did. It’s not hitting someone, it’s batting their hand away. Fulling expecting at this point to be asked if I’m happy to hit a disabled person with a bat…….

No one thinks hitting a disabled person is acceptable. However some of us think if we are grabbed by the breasts, swatting the hand away is fine.

It’s assault, legally.

Then I’d deal with that if the situation arose.

The thread title doesn’t say swat, it says smack. 🤷‍♀️

Not if there is no intent…

But there is intent from the OP.

She posted she smacked them and fully intends to in the future if it happens again

OP, on your last thread I asked twice whether you had received therapy or counselling when you were diagnosed with PTSD.
I don't believe you've responded.
I ask because this would help manage your response to unwanted and unexpected behaviour from others.
Not just from vulnerable unwell people in nursing homes, but from e.g a toddler that brushes your bottom in the supermarket, or someone accidentally touches you in the swimming pool, or in any very busy place really.

Well I’m taking that as a swat - regardless it’s not a full on hit she’s talking about. It’s quite clear what she means.

The OP says smack. Most people these days class smacking as a bad thing. Most people in fact would say smacking and hitting are the same thing. Smacking children is seen as bad. No one would argue that if you smack a child you are hitting the child.

Edited to add, the OP also says she “hits out” as a reflex. So she uses both the words smack and hit. Not swat or swipe.

No there isn’t. Someone grabbed her breasts, she removed their hand instinctively by swatting it away. Absolutely not an intent to cause harm or cause a person to fear violence.

”Common assault is when a person inflicts violence on someone else or makes them think they are going to be attacked. It does not have to involve physical violence. Threatening words or a raised fist is enough for the crime to have been committed provided the victim thinks that they are about to be attacked. Spitting at someone is another example.”

She made no threat to the person who grabbed her - she was, in fact, defending herself against a perceived threat.

If she goes into the home now and goes up to that person and hits their hand - that’s assault. She did not and has not suggested that’s what she would do.

This seems to be the case in the care home OP visits.

You are missing the point.

It’s an analogy.

The OP is refusing to accept that she would be prudent and sensible to modify her behaviour when she’s visiting the nursing home. She seems to expect that people who are cognitively impaired, often severely, will behave as if they are not.

Duplicate post

I’m using the word swat as I know that’s the description for what I would do. I suspect it also describes what the OP did.

If someone inappropriately touches me you can bet I’m swatting their hand away.

She has said herself that she intends to do it again.

Where has anyone said you enjoy hitting disabled people?

The second thread was suggested by other posters who felt it had been an interesting, albeit difficult discussion.

My hope is that at least some people who engage fully with the thread will learn more about dementia.

What if, say, a two year old non-disabled child touched your breast or something similar?

So we could be talking about totally different things. You’re going by your experience and possible reactions only and not what the OP is saying in her own words.

Why do you have to swat, as opposed to simply moving out of their reach or moving their hand away? You're doing something that may distress them, and it's not as if they'll learn from it.

OP won’t.