to think it is acceptable to smack someone if they touch your body, even if they have dementia? Part 2

[haleey]

Continuing from previous thread:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5534178-to-think-it-is-acceptable-to-smack-someone-if-they-touch-your-body-even-if-they-have-dementia

I visit my grandad in a care home regularly and sometimes male residents will touch women unexpectedly. I’ve had my waist touched, boobs grabbed and one man touched my privates while smiling at me. I know they are ill and confused, but honestly I think people act as though women are supposed to just tolerate it because “they can’t help it”.

Part of this for me is that I have been assaulted before, so my reflex when someone suddenly touches me unexpectedly is to hit out before I even properly think. It is an automatic panic response.

Recently one resident suddenly grabbed me and I instinctively smacked his hand away. One of the staff immediately told me off and said “he can’t help it”. I understand that dementia affects behaviour and judgement, but I found it upsetting that the focus instantly became about him rather than acknowledging that I had just been touched without consent and panicked.

I’m not talking about beating vulnerable elderly people or deliberately hurting confused residents. But I also don’t think women should be expected to quietly accept unwanted touching because the person is elderly or cognitively impaired.

I don’t see the problem here. Swatting a hand away isn’t exactly painful, it’s not like she’s punching them in the face. It might give them a slight shock but so it should! It’s the same as shooing a dog away from your food or a baby’s hand from a flame.

Non of my colleagues who between us have 70-80years experience working in this area have ever known a visitor to be assaulted in any way by a resident

You do realise that even with your all your colleagues with all that experience that you cannot encounter every situation ever right?

It is exceptionally unusual.

Never visit a vulnerable person in a place that houses mainly vulnerable people. They need to be safe from people who don't understand their illnesses in the place they live.

Ah, so you advocate shocking both babies and unwell adults?

But then, most people having had one distressing experience would do things differently to avoid it happening again.

It really is quite extraordinary!

This is the exact thoughts I have too. I’m an elderly nurse and often get sexually inappropriate comments or touched but I can’t comprehend EVER hitting back, that is not ok. Most of the people lack capacity and the intent isn’t how it appears, their brains are just wired differently.

i agree it’s fine to be uncomfortable or upset but then don’t put yourself in that position. If you go into a home where people are with cognitive impairments, surely you should be aware of that and more self-aware. Anyone working with these people that hits back, absoloutely should not be working is that job. It’s often better to re-direct their hands to a bed rail or blanket for example but I absoloutely can’t get my head around people thinking it is ok to hit back. There isn’t the intent there and regardless 2 wrongs don’t make a right. Someone with cognitive impairment likely won’t remember being hit back so what is it achieving? They won’t learn from it, it’s not discipline and unwanted behaviour is likely to be repeated but it’s not fair to hit vulnerable people or anyone for that matter

Some people can't seem to comprehend that if they have not heard of something that it cannot be true.

It is incredibly unusual to be so naïve.

I will repeat what I said to someone else;

If you work professionally with disabled adults or children, you’re trained, supervised and prepared for behaviours that can happen in that setting. You’re in work mode, usually with support around you, policies in place and an understanding that managing challenging behaviour is part of the role.

A random visitor in a care home or member of the public isn’t operating in that environment. They may have their own history of assault or trauma and react instinctively if someone suddenly grabs intimate parts of their body such as myself. That’s very different from a trained professional knowingly entering a care role where physical behaviours are an understood occupational risk.

People also keep talking as though every reaction is a calculated “punishment” or deliberate assault on a vulnerable person, when it is a reflexive defensive response. Those are not the same thing.

My mum was in a care home with dementia for 4 years and in that time I was never assaulted by a male resident.

That must mean no one else can ever have been assaulted.

Absolutely this. My responsibility is my own safety and welfare, no one else's. I'm quite content for some random MNers to think I'm heartless.

Some people will say on here you assaulted them, you are in THEIR home, you are the one who should be arrested and barred from the home.

Vulnerable doesn't require inverted commas.

Why the inverted commas round vulnerable? Are you suggesting these people are faking dementia so that they can get away with assaulting people? Or that having dementia doesn’t make you vulnerable?

If the "It's incredibly unusual" crew don't believe OP then report it. Otherwise it's troll hunting

Um, are you saying if your baby reached out towards a flame/something dangerous you wouldn’t instinctively grab their hand or swat their hand away in case you ‘shock’ them? Sure.
That same instinct would make you swat away a hand that’s grabbing your private parts.

Everyone has different experiences though. It's really about how to deal with them.

You noticed as well....

Someone was told off on the other thread for swatting their child's hand away from the hot stove and then they were interrogated how about high the stove was and where the rings were.

I would never have any of my babies near a flame in the first place. But grabbing their wee hand isn't the same as smacking it away.

What would your "swat" teach them? That you had them too close to a flame?

If you were in my home and hit me, you would seriously regret it.

That was me who did that. I have supported you too at times. I won't again.

Runs off crying

😂