to think it is acceptable to smack someone if they touch your body, even if they have dementia? Part 2

[haleey]

Continuing from previous thread:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5534178-to-think-it-is-acceptable-to-smack-someone-if-they-touch-your-body-even-if-they-have-dementia

I visit my grandad in a care home regularly and sometimes male residents will touch women unexpectedly. I’ve had my waist touched, boobs grabbed and one man touched my privates while smiling at me. I know they are ill and confused, but honestly I think people act as though women are supposed to just tolerate it because “they can’t help it”.

Part of this for me is that I have been assaulted before, so my reflex when someone suddenly touches me unexpectedly is to hit out before I even properly think. It is an automatic panic response.

Recently one resident suddenly grabbed me and I instinctively smacked his hand away. One of the staff immediately told me off and said “he can’t help it”. I understand that dementia affects behaviour and judgement, but I found it upsetting that the focus instantly became about him rather than acknowledging that I had just been touched without consent and panicked.

I’m not talking about beating vulnerable elderly people or deliberately hurting confused residents. But I also don’t think women should be expected to quietly accept unwanted touching because the person is elderly or cognitively impaired.

Also add that you have to avoid it as well if it has happened once and change your behaviour.

It’s been explained why it’s not sexual assault. If you want to believe it is, that’s your prerogative but you won’t find many sympathetic people.

Why did you need a second thread? Do you really want to be told you’re wrong for another 1000 posts?

Legally they may not be prosecuted for it but as far as the victim is concerned it is still very much sexual assault. Made all the worse by the fact the perpetrator can’t be punished for it so there is no recourse.

I would too.

It’s not sexual assault. That’s a fact.

If, as a fully capable adult you cannot distinguish that while this is an unpleasant thing to experience this is not sexual assault and is because of an evil disease that is causing this behaviour, I don’t know what to tell you.

Are you MNHQ? Do I need to justify to you which threads I start?

Do you really want to be told you’re wrong for another 1000 posts?

Maybe try reading the last thread. It helps.

Christ so you just want to admit you enjoy hitting disabled adults and children?

It’s interesting that you’ve not responded to my posts breaking down exactly why it is not sexual assault, but you’re responding to everything else. Says it all to be honest.

Maybe try reading the thread. It is not my father.

so you just want to admit you enjoy hitting disabled adults and children?

Yes, You are so clever. That is exactly what I want to admit. 🙄

You’ve been told why it’s wrong to hit them. Been told why it’s not sexual assault. Yet you’re still here arguing till you’re blue in the face that you’re right.

Watch out. You will get told you enjoy hitting disabled children.

Women have far too long been encouraged to be kind or think of others, to our own detriment.

Unwanted touching is being described as unpleasant by a poster repeatedly here.

It may not be sexual assault in the eyes of the law but the victim will certainly feel that she has been sexualy assaulted.

Well I’m sympathetic.

If someone touches you inappropriately and you hit out, that isn't something you can always help.
Care home staff will absolutely know which clients are a bit too handsy and should absolutely be keeping an eye on him for his safety as much as yours because if you aren't the one that smacks him, someone will.

People expect women to put up with a lot of things and it's not on. We DO put up with a lot of unwanted touching and attention our whole lives. God forbid we actually have a reflex action about it

SHE IS NOT A VICTIM!!! That implies there is intent. I’m disgusted that some of you think it’s okay to hit a disabled person.

Because that’s what it is.

It is not sexual assault. Legally or morally.

Wow are we seriously saying its ok to hit people with dementia and learning difficulties? What about people with neurological conditions where they have involuntary body movements such as tics which mean they might accidentally touch/hit, is it ok to hit them back?!

I never cease to be amazed by attitudes towards disabled on mnet.

Is it ok that someone was touched inappropriately no? And they can absolutely be upset, hurt, feel aggrieved etc. But no we dont get to hit back or lash out. I can understand an impulsive shock reaction almost, but not saying you would do it again. And generally most adults with capacity can override that shock reaction.

As someone that works with children and young adults with learning difficulties, and has friends and family members with various conditions that can result in unwanted behaviour i can assure you the answer is NEVER hit them back or 'swot them away'.

There are ways of dealing with it, which vary depending on the behaviours and what could be causing them but lashing out at them is not the answer.

Obviously you might be shocked especially if its unexpected ie in public but if you choose to enter their home in this case, knowing the residents may have dementia or LD and therfore behave in unpredictable ways it should be something to be aware off. This doesnt mean you cant be upset by it, but its also not totally unexpected.

Anyway reading through, this is the 2nd thread on this subject, glad i missed the first. Its rather depressing to read such ignorant and harmful attitudes towards those with dementia, learning disabilities etc.

Wow are we seriously saying its ok to hit people with dementia and learning difficulties? What about people with neurological conditions where they have involuntary body movements such as tics which mean they might accidentally touch/hit, is it ok to hit them back?!

I never cease to be amazed by attitudes towards disabled on mnet.

Is it ok that someone was touched inappropriately no? And they can absolutely be upset, hurt, feel aggrieved etc. But no we dont get to hit back or lash out. I can understand an impulsive shock reaction almost, but not saying you would do it again. And generally most adults with capacity can override that shock reaction.

As someone that works with children and young adults with learning difficulties, and has friends and family members with various conditions that can result in unwanted behaviour i can assure you the answer is NEVER hit them back or 'swot them away'.

There are ways of dealing with it, which vary depending on the behaviours and what could be causing them but lashing out at them is not the answer.

Obviously you might be shocked especially if its unexpected ie in public but if you choose to enter their home in this case, knowing the residents may have dementia or LD and therfore behave in unpredictable ways it should be something to be aware off. This doesnt mean you cant be upset by it, but its also not totally unexpected.

Anyway reading through, this is the 2nd thread on this subject, glad i missed the first. Its rather depressing to read such ignorant and harmful attitudes towards those with dementia, learning disabilities etc.

People expect women to put up with a lot of things and it's not on. We DO put up with a lot of unwanted touching and attention our whole lives. God forbid we actually have a reflex action about it

The reflex action is being criticised and people are making out like it is just going round hitting people with dementia. I didn't know they had dementia until the staff told me after they had inappropriately touched me.

Unpleasant is a ridiculous way to describe it.
A long hot train journey with no seat is unpleasant.
Being touched inappropriately is way further than unpleasant - it can be psychologically damaging - and like you I would swat away the hand of someone who does it regardless of dementia.
I think people think when we use the word swat that it’s a full on punch or slap - a swat is not that.
You’ve had a bit of an unfair pile on here OP.