DH holiday misery - he’s fed up with the kids

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Writing this from what should be a dream holiday.
2 kids (3&4) who are generally terrible listeners, don’t care for consequences, don’t do as they’re told unless asked a million times. I am a laid back parent probably too laid back - but I also think they’re still young. DH however is not. He believes they’re should be sitting at the table speaking politely and enjoying family dinners peacefully every night.

he’s not enjoying himself one bit, kids are over excited, dysregulated, tired, a but run down but generally having a really lovely happy time. DH is so fed up, keeps saying it’s a waste of his time and money; how it’s ridiculous they just want me all the time, keeps hurrying then up like tonight trying to get them out and he says things like ‘we’re nit fucking around’ which I think is awful. He’s taken himself off to her tonight with no good night to anyone or omoffer if any help it’s feeling like he just Hayes his life!!

are aby 3/4 year olds that well behaved and eat everything ik their plate and don’t refuse food and have nice family conversation over lunch?

Where are you?

It’s probably one of those where you need to meet in the middle a bit. I think it is normal to a point for siblings who are very close in age and very young to be silly and hyper together (mine certainly are) but I do think it needs addressing.

We went away for a weekend at the start of the year and mine started being like that (in the wonderful science and industry museum in Manchester if anyone’s interested!) we just split and I took DD and DH had DS and to be honest it was great. It’s harder to do on holiday but if you can it might be worth a shot.

Balance expectations. Find middle ground.

Your kids need more discipline and your DH needs to relax a bit.

In the morning have a chat with H and set reasonable boundaries and expectations so that you can get through the rest of the holiday, then when you're home you can tackle this properly.

I'm not surprised he feels that way. Do you think allowing your children to misbehave is helping them in any way?

Family holidays with kids under 5 aren't the fun and relaxing holidays you might have had pre-kids. I always found them hard, and there is zero chance my son would have sat nicely at the table and made polite conversation at 3/4! It may be that your kids are overexcited/dysregulated and need you both to step in with a some boundaries and a bit of routine to re-establish a sense or normality for them, but your husband needs to manage his expectations and at the very least, step up and parent, not run away and sulk. He is being unreasonable. I hope you manage to enjoy the rest of your holiday.

I suspect lots of posters will tell you he needs to lighten up because it's a holiday but I really don't think it's a high expectation to want a 3 and 4 year old to sit for a meal.

It sounds like you're used to being the fun parent and he's the only one trying to enforce any rules. He's probably fed up of them always wanting you because he knows they only want you because you let them do as they please without consequence. It can be hard when you're the only parent parenting.

3+ 4 year olds can sit at a table for a meal and join in a conversation. They don’t need to eat everything, but they shouldn’t be unpleasant to eat with.

Your husband sound too stressed. But please parent your children before they go feral.

Col A and col b here....

I think our 2 and 4 yo are well behaved generally.
But i have a clear framework and we help them listen and calm down amd stay regulated.

Also i set up for success.
Dinner would be at 5 no later than 6. We'd order fairly promptly mains and dessert only.
I ring something for them to do and or we talk and do games like grabalo.

They normally get a little leg stretch after meal pre dessert.

Basically as long as we dont fumble it and dont expect perfection. Its nice enough.

Our 4 yo knows about consequences and listens (this took work on my part)
My dh still does things like randomly say "thats it! No dessert / tv / chocolate" far too readily and is generally poorer than me at assessing thetly are hot / tired / need x.
So I do most of the leg work there.

Re your situation.
They are children in a hot unailiar place.
He is an adult.
If he is totally unable to emotionally regulate himself why does he expect a 3 and 4 yo to do it?
I'd telling him to piss off and do his own thing tomorrow and you hang out with kids.

Separately you might find it easier to have the kids 1:1

Longer term
generally terrible listeners, don’t care for consequences, don’t do as they’re told unless asked a million times.

You are doing them no favours with this. Especially oldest who'll be in school.
You need to look hard at your parenting techniques and try and get on the same page.

Family holidays are hard work when DC are under 5. Your DH’s expectations sounds too high (around dinner), yours may be too low.

Where are you?

The problem isn't your children it's your husband. They are acting how toddlers act, which is normal.
Your husband is acting like an overgrown toddler. Instead of this "

I had three under three and was pretty strict. However because they behaved very well at 3/4 onwards we did a lot with them.

Regular holidays, meals out, activities, festivals, days out most weekends etc. Even took them canoeing at 3 as I trusted they would behave. Indoor rock climbing etc.

I do think with some kids it’s personality but some parents seem to expect very little from their kids. I knew that some 3 year olds can behave very well out and about so I aimed for that because ultimately I wanted to do things with them and for us all to enjoy it. I am probably more like your husband.

Restaurants - they would always take books, a card game and a drawing pad and crayons. Never tech. Even at 9/12 I’d expect them to take a book everywhere with them - if they are bored or grumpy they can read. I’d prefer them to read rather than squabbling

I wouldn’t expect scintillating conversation at 3/4 but I’d expect them to sit and chat over an average length (not drawn out) meal.

The game sleeping queens was a good game to take to restaurants at that age, you may need to help the youngest depending on maths skills.

It cut off before I finished my post.
Your children are behaving normally for a 3 and 4 year old.

Your husband sounds like a horrible man.

My step kids are parented as you are currently parenting. They are now 7 and 9 and very unpleasant to be around. They have no manners and won’t sit to eat a small meal without messing about and to be honest that’s the least of the issues. I would listen to your husband on this occasion and start enforcing some discipline.

This is why I didn't bother with especially nice holidays until child aged 6 or over. Same shit, different location. I think the nice location makes it worse because you think how relaxing it could be...if they weren't there. Anyway you could do like an early kids dinner and then a later adults one (or even just drinks/olives) on a balcony once they are asleep to gain some adults relaxing time?

You need a middle ground. I don’t think your husbands expectations are unrealistic tbh. Your children should be able to behave, but he also needs to relax a bit, as they will be picking up on his tension.

I totally understand your DH. Holidays with young children can be absolutely exhausting and not much fun. And they're definitely not made any easier if you don't expect certain behaviours. Eg it is not unreasonable for a 3 year old to sit at the table for 20 minutes. 3 years is still very young but not too young to understand and follow simple rules like not getting up during a meal, covering your mouth when you cough, saying please and thank you, not running around in restaurants.
It sounds like you let them mostly do what they want because they're still little. At what age do you think it's time to start teaching them certain rules?

It’s so hard to tell from one post. They might be completely normal kids and your husband being difficult or they could be poorly behaved (which is his problem as well as yours) and something needs to be done.

We used to go to beach restaurants for dinner on holiday so kids could play in the sand (close by!) and just sit at the table for the meal itself. Would that help? A 4 year old isn’t a toddler and needs to be able to sit for short periods ready for school.

I think it’s six of one and half a dozen of the other.

Your expectations are ridiculously low but his aren’t ideal either especially when you’re on holiday in a new place and it sounds like the kids don’t really behave for you both at home either.

They should be sitting at the table with some colouring or games and chatting with you both while you eat but equally they’re not always going to eat everything and won’t want to sit for ages while you have a nice chilled out adult meal with multiple courses and wine.

You talk about being laid back but it sounds like that translates into letting your kids do whatever they want - your 4yo will be in school soon and will be expected to follow rules, sit for meals and listen to what his teachers tell him.

No they are not. Are you saying a 4 year old is incapable of behaving?

Having read the replies I am surprised and disappointed that up to now 100%of them have not mentioned the fact that your husband is swearing at little kids.
Noone has picked up that his behaviour is appalling.

I despair.

If your children are unusual (they don't sound that unusual to me, to be honest) but according to the other posters by 18 months they should be able to debone a fish whilst discussing philosophy over dinner so maybe I'm wrong, then your husband should be helping and setting a good example with his behaviour not effing and blinding and sulking.

This, I don’t think I’d be able to take out dc away
from home if they were “terrible listeners” what will you do to make sure they stay safe and don’t run off, into traffic etc?

Why is there no expectation that their own dad, the other parent, parents his own kids if he has an issue with their current behaviour. This isn’t all on OP to fix
OP, please don’t let the entire responsibility of this sit with you. Maybe talk with your husband about what proactive things you can nigh do on this holiday to make it more manageable.
him acting like he’s the stroppiest child is helping nobody.
if he won’t engage in a sensible conversation and step up then make your own plans without him

The devil is in the detail.

Yes, 3 & 4 year olds should be able to sit at a table for dinner - but not for a chilled 2 hour marathon of relaxed holiday dining.

generally terrible listeners, don’t care for consequences, don’t do as they’re told unless asked a million times should be the exception rather than the rule, so earn you are on holiday it can slip a but, but you still have kids who can behave.

I think everyone needs done ground rules laying down - and not all to suit Dad.

And there needs sone fundamental changes when you get home too.

The 4yo will be in school soon where he’ll be expected to sit and eat at a table, listen to instructions from multiple adults and follow the rules.

Yes, it’s normal for him to forget or get distracted or be silly but he should be more than capable of sitting nicely for lunch with his parents.