DH holiday misery - he’s fed up with the kids

[weetabix80]

Writing this from what should be a dream holiday.
2 kids (3&4) who are generally terrible listeners, don’t care for consequences, don’t do as they’re told unless asked a million times. I am a laid back parent probably too laid back - but I also think they’re still young. DH however is not. He believes they’re should be sitting at the table speaking politely and enjoying family dinners peacefully every night.

he’s not enjoying himself one bit, kids are over excited, dysregulated, tired, a but run down but generally having a really lovely happy time. DH is so fed up, keeps saying it’s a waste of his time and money; how it’s ridiculous they just want me all the time, keeps hurrying then up like tonight trying to get them out and he says things like ‘we’re nit fucking around’ which I think is awful. He’s taken himself off to her tonight with no good night to anyone or omoffer if any help it’s feeling like he just Hayes his life!!

are aby 3/4 year olds that well behaved and eat everything ik their plate and don’t refuse food and have nice family conversation over lunch?

i am definitely not OK with their behaviour, I find it incredibly frustrating, they are very defiant kids and I’m constantly trying to find ways to improve things at home (both are fine at school and nursery.) but I’m also not going to let it stress me out, because like a PP they definitely pick up on his mood and slamming his cutlery on the table saying ’this is a waste of my time’ and ‘you’re making daddy sad’ doesn’t help at all!!!!!! They are good when their on routing but of course when we’re eating late and they’re exhausted from a fun day I can accept they’re going to be hard work, I just wish he could cut them a bit more slack. He also blames me for it which is very unpleasant.

I'd suggest to him that the holiday is absolutely not a waste of his time. He's clearly stressed and needs to chill out. He also needs to get reacquainted with his children. And remind himself that this is his wife's holiday too.

On holidays, there is no rush. No work schedule. Getting up late, going for a family swim, letting the dcs eat little or nothing, is fine. It's too hot for anyone to have much of an appetite, just make sure they drink plenty, and keep a tube of crisps and some fruit in your bag. And of course they are excited, it's all new to them and they aren't used to having daddy around all the time. He just needs to stay calm and consistent, and include them in his conversation.

You nailed it, thank you. He’s cross with me for their behaviour

The thing is, if children do not learn behaviour at home, in this case sitting up at a table for mealtimes etc. there is no switch that suddenly turns on when they are on holiday/in public.

Completely agree with this.
Structure how you do things to work for your kids. But lay down much higher expectations for their behaviour. At this age my DD would have been able to sit at a table and be patient through a meal - I probably would have provided some quiet activity for her to do whilst waiting for food, like colouring or stickers.
Never fall into the trap of thinking your kids are too little for rules. You don't have to be a dragon about it. But well behaved kids who understand how to behave and who gets treated with respect by their parents generally grow into much nicer young people to be around.
My DH would never swear like that in front of his kids. Don't be surprised if they start using rude language back at you.

At 3 and 4 mine would have sat for the food, but wouldn't have wanted to sit there 'hanging out' once they'd finished. TBH, I wouldn't want to sit silently at a table for 30 mins while people around me ate stuff I didn't eat either, and I'm 47!

My compromise was to take ipads/headphones if it was an 'adult' dinner rather than a family one, and a family dinner was done when the kids were done (no coffee and brandy after!).

The kids are people too - and when bored they're going to get silly. Hell, mine are 13 and 16, and I'd still prefer to take only one of them shopping at a time or they eventually get bored and start playing silly idiots with each other.

Does your DH look after the kids alone very much? Does he have realistic expectations of toddler behaviour or is he basically in that place where people who don't have experience of children have opinions about how they should behave without actually understanding them.

He is also the parent.

I'm not saying that at all but I think it is normal that toddlers might not be good at listening, might need things said more than once, might get over excited and disregulated in a new place and might not eat everything on their plate.

My kids would sit at dinner at that age for a short period but they would need a lot of attention, and it is conceivable that I might have had to say something more than once, and they might not have eaten everything that was put in front of them.

I can't see anything that say any specific behaviour which is wildly extreme in the post, she doesn't say the kids are running around the restaurant or throwing things or shouting at dinner...what I do see is a woman whose husband is someone she has to placate and keep calm otherwise he starts swearing and sulking and ruining things for everyone else.

Then he needs to grow up, he can’t have 3/4 years of apparently being ok with parenting arrangements then decide this week it doesn’t suit him and strop about it
Look after yourself OP, you deserve the most enjoyable holiday you can make of it too
sorry for all the misogynistic comments flooding in about how this is of course your fault by default as your the mum

He is, and that's a behaviour that can't be allowed to get established.

Your children are behaving how their father shows them to. He is defiant. He doesn't listen. He swears and has no patience for them.

Do as I say not as I do doesn't work. Children aren't stupid. They copy what the adult does, not what they say.

I find it strange that you say they're having a lovely time but also say they're tired and disregulated. Kids who are tired and disregulated and over excited are generally not having a good time (or they are until they completely crash).

Like others, I do think you need to meet in the middle somewhere.

Obviously you can't expect a 3 & 4 year old to have perfect adult-like behaviour... but they do benefit from boundaries.

This.

My toddler sits at every meal at the table. We share food and eat as a family and talk. We ask him simple things like are you enjoying your chicken? Did you see a butterfly today? He joins in with one word answers/nodding.

We go out to restaurants and take holidays and go to festivals. We take small wooden toys/crayons/finger puppets, break the meal up with a walk to the toilet or around the restaurant garden etc. I think you need to set the expectation with your children. I’ve told mine that unless you act like a big boy then we can’t go to nice places.

Dream holiday with a 3 and 4 year old?

Hard to say if they are just normal kids or especially wild. But if they're the same at home, does he not participate in family life so he would be aware?

I will say, that firm but reasonable rules are very important. I thank my past self for putting in the work about 'no fuss at bedtime' and when I say put it away/turn it off you put it away/turn it off (note I'm reasonable here - and tell them to wrap up 10 mins before so they don't lose their game progress).

So you probably do want to look at that a bit - decide your non-negociables, and be firm on them - but - they're 3 and 4, in a new place, doing new things, probably not sleeping well. They get some leeway!

My kids are absolutely awful behaviour but even I have always expected them to sit at the table and eat with some manners. I despair at people who let children run round in restaurants or be loud, messy or glued to devices. It's not going to raise polite functional adults. I'm team husband here and it would ruin my holiday too. I suggest earlier to bed, build in a bit more calm, if the activities are 'disregulating' them then don't do them. At 3 and 4 your routine from home should have some bearing on your day. A midday nap is your friend as well.

Is it just at meal times that their behaviour is an issue?

At that age they are young to be sitting still at the table the entire time – but if you're letting them round amok while other people are eating, making a lot of noise and generally being a nuisance, then yes, YABU and I don't blame your DH for being annoyed. This is the age when you should start instilling good habits and teaching your kids to show respect for other people while on holiday/eating out etc, so you need to find some middle ground between actually parenting your children and letting them do what they want.

So it’s not acceptable for the young children to get overwhelmed and play up but it’s acceptable for the grown man to tantrum??

I think the nice location makes it worse because you think how relaxing it could be...if they weren't there
spot on @Twattergy!

OP I feel for you, I do but your husband is literally telling you he hates his life. This isn’t a normal reaction to taking kids on holiday. It sounds like a much bigger issue to me.

On holidays especially, me and DH would tag team one in one out. So he goes for a walk in the morning while I take the early shift. Or I have a nice long lie in while he takes them out. Or we would divide and conquer: one has the oldest one and one has the youngest for a morning and then come back together for lunch. As many others have said holidaying with young kids is just shit. You need strategies to make it more bearable.

Your husband sounds awful OP . I hope there are some suggestions in the thread that help out.

@weetabix80 "2 kids (3&4) who are generally terrible listeners, don’t care for consequences, don’t do as they’re told unless asked a million times. I am a laid back parent probably too laid back - but I also think they’re still young. DH however is not. He believes they’re should be sitting at the table speaking politely and enjoying family dinners peacefully every night."

At what age do you think they should be able to sit at a table, speaking politely and enjoying family dinners?

This is meant with kindness but if you dont start instilling some manners, discipline and social norms now you have no chance. Children are little sponges, they can sit nicely at tables and eat and use manners from the age they can sit up at a table and from the age they can speak?!

Im a teacher and a parent. It is never too early to start these things....why do you think they are too young? Im guessing thdy dont do this at home either? If this is lacking what else?!

Your holiday sounds a nightmare! Children need boundaries....we are away at the moment and every holiday from when my children were babies we kept to the same routines and the same bedtimes and the same expectations at home. Everyone still had fun! Its only now my youngest is 6 we have started letting her stay up a bit later every other night, otherwise she gets overtired and has no fun the next day (we are always out and about exploring we aren't laze around people at all) I should also add i was a single parent for 5 years and did holidays single handed with my young children so they learnt early on to help mummy.

You say they dont listen, what consequences do you use for this? I feel sorry for your husband, but also dont understand how you could have entered into a marriage and planned children without discussing parenting styles?! You sound like a lazy parent (which won't get you anywhere when thry are older!) And he prefers boundaries and discipline. Recipe for disaster

Your 4 year old will be in school in September? Were you waiting for school.to teacher them how to sit still and use manners?! Poor kid will be in for a shock!

I would be your DH. What’s the point of a holiday with ‘disregulated’ badly behaved children?

And of course they don’t listen, young children aren’t generally good at this. That’s why you use different tones, body language, eye contact and strong hand holding. ‘Laid back’ parenting causes so much stress for everyone else. Let’s face it, it’s actually lazy parenting because you cba to put any boundaries in and just blame them for ‘not listening’.

They are not toddlers! One is almost at school. Sadly we are having more children like OP’s start school where they really struggle at the beginning because they’re used to doing as they like.

I think you both need to sit down and talk and you need to support him with the parenting.

Agree with someone else saying don’t eat out later than 6pm, anything later than that and we’d get a takeaway in. Are they boys? I’ve found the travel set of magnetic tiles to be game changing! Take along a couple of hot wheels cars too. We only get them out in restaurants and they spend time building boats etc for their cars to go onto. We found their attention span for colouring in and sticker books wasn’t as good as actually being able to build something. Dunelm do mini playdoh sets in a small travel case too which is really good.

Also split them up so they’re diagonal from each other across the table with one of you next to each one so they can’t get in each others space and fight 😅

That's nice for you, but it's not fantastically helpful to OP, because all children are different. Some are more biddable than others. Some are chilled and others are not, and no amount of Mary Poppinsing will turn one into the other.

Anyway it's pretty clear that OP's real problem is her DH.