DH holiday misery - he’s fed up with the kids

[weetabix80]

Writing this from what should be a dream holiday.
2 kids (3&4) who are generally terrible listeners, don’t care for consequences, don’t do as they’re told unless asked a million times. I am a laid back parent probably too laid back - but I also think they’re still young. DH however is not. He believes they’re should be sitting at the table speaking politely and enjoying family dinners peacefully every night.

he’s not enjoying himself one bit, kids are over excited, dysregulated, tired, a but run down but generally having a really lovely happy time. DH is so fed up, keeps saying it’s a waste of his time and money; how it’s ridiculous they just want me all the time, keeps hurrying then up like tonight trying to get them out and he says things like ‘we’re nit fucking around’ which I think is awful. He’s taken himself off to her tonight with no good night to anyone or omoffer if any help it’s feeling like he just Hayes his life!!

are aby 3/4 year olds that well behaved and eat everything ik their plate and don’t refuse food and have nice family conversation over lunch?

It's really tough being the disciplinarian parent if your partner/wife/husband doesn't give a shit about your children's behaviour. It's like talking to a brick wall. Even more so if the lazy parenting parent is the primary carer and the DC are with them the bulk of the time and getting away with murder.

I'm not making excuses for the swearing, but it's not difficult to see why he's frustrated.

OP I feel there’s info missing here that makes it hard to just whose expectations are off. Regardless, his behaviour and swearing about it isn’t ok and you need to work together.

• what time are you trying to eat?
• what kind of meal (e.g. quick bite to eat followed by a walk down the beach and get an ice cream there and have a little play or a long ish sat down 2-3 course)
• girls or boys? (Can make a difference in how to tackle)
• are all days out full activity days out or are some more chilled pool / rest days?
• what’s their behaviour actually like? Getting up and down, shouting and screaming, bickering? How are they the rest of the day?

weetabix

I have posted replies to you previously re your relationship and remember you well. Am very worried about you and your DDs here; you are on holiday with your abuser and true to form he is kicking off yet again. He will continue to do so and you need to let go of any and all hope that he will change. You could be some sort of step ford wife to him and he will continue to move the goalposts around. This is who he really is and when someone shows you who they are you need to take note. The nice/nasty cycle of abuse he shows you is a continuous one. Such men too hate women, ALL of them.

What do you want to teach your DDs about relationships and what are they learning here?. You cannot protect your own self, let alone them, from seeing you being abused by their father so do not think you can shield them from his abuse. If he was at all a decent human being he would not do that to them nor abuse you as his children's mother.

Your only real option going forward is to get through this holiday as best as you can (take the girls out somewhere away from him) and firm up plans to separate from him when you return to the UK. Bust this wide open OP, do not continue to keep his abuses of you, and in turn your DDs, secret because abuse thrives on secrecy.

There is missing info – ten days ago she started a thread about wanting to divorce him. This is tip of iceberg stuff.

Yes, having now remembered who OP is and her other threads, this thread is wildly misleading. The issue isn't her parenting at all, but rather her DH being abusive in general.

So you have one parent who's huffing and puffing and making it very obvious that his toddlers who are probably dysregulated are nothing but a burden to him and ruining his holiday and is transfering this tension to the other parent. You have the other parent who doesn't seem confident to discipline at all and is stressed out because dad is basically punishing everyone else in the family because the kids won't behave. And you wonder why the kids are confused and too jittery to sit down for a meal????

It sounds like you both need to start singing from the same hymn book a bit. You can be firm and consistent whilst being responsive and realistic about what to expect from a kid this age. This is probably somewhat personal to the kid. Like we're on holiday with our 8 year old right now and I still don't expect her to sleep alone. She sleeps in bed with me and dad takes the single bed. I understand that she's a lot more wary of being in a new environment than we are and needs that security. Also we respond to what she needs. If she needs to go to a park/beach and act like a lunatic for a bit then so be it as long as she's not hurting anyone. It's her holiday too. She is expected to sit nicely for dinner though and always has been. We are relaxed about sweet treats on holday but I explain that there's food for growing and food for fun. She has to have enough food for growing for the day as otherwise she becomes grumpy and tired so if I feel that she isn't having enough of it then fun food is witheld until she'll eat properly. One thing at a time if we're at all inc buffets too. I won't accept food loading then wasting I find it greedy and obnoxious.

Your kids are always going to struggle with acceptable behaviour if you and dad can't agree on acceptable behaviour. You both need to have a good talk away from them and hear each other out and decide on some rules/boundaries that you're both going to stick to whilst understanding that your children are very young and you might need to adjust your expectations especially on holiday

We’re relaxed parents. But at that age (3 and 4) you have to very involved with them all the time. You can’t simply let them run amok. Or expect to have an adult conversation while they sit nicely or entertain themselves. It isn’t going to happen. You have to model and teach good behaviour. That means, phones firmly in pocket.

For example, when eating at a table (at home or out), you have to constantly interact with them to keep them entertained and distracted. Talking to them, about their day, what they enjoyed, what you’re going to do tomorrow. Being a bit silly or funny, without getting them hyped up. Kids need humour rather than sternness, at all ages.

Kids that age quickly get ‘ants in their pants’, so you have to be prepared to have them on your lap at the table if they get restless, tired or bored. We used to allow them to have little toys (e.g. little action figures) so they could play little games with them (the salt and pepper often became part of their games). We also always had activity and reading books (especially when eating out) to distract them and keep them occupied and calm.

If they start getting loud or squabbling when out, you have to explain to them WHY they should be considerate to others, e.g. “Everyone wants to be peaceful while they eat their lunch, so we mustn’t be loud, as it’ll disturb them” or “Look, the waiter’s carrying plates of hot food, so we mustn’t get in his way as he might drop it on someone and burn them”. You shouldn’t simply say: “Sit still” or “Stop being loud”. Because little kids need to know why and how they should be considerate and respectful to others. As a parent, it’s your job to teach them.

If they get really restless, or it’s very noisy or hot in a cafe, one parent may have to take them outside to calm them down by showing them things: anything (shop window displays, cars, trees, people going past) to keep their interest, talking calmly all the time.

So, at 3 and 4, both parents (if there are two) must be very hands-on, interacting with the kids and tag-teaming to give each other a breather. We still used a buggy at that age, as they can get very tired and often need to crash out or be simply be contained and calm.

It sounds like your DH is leaving it all to you. They’re his kids too. It’s hard work being with young kids (ask any childcare worker). But it’s also so rewarding. At that age, they’re such a joy, wanting to discover things, wanting you to play with them and needing lots of cuddles and closeness. They grow up so fast, your DH should try to take delight in every minute. In no time, they’re teenagers and you barely get two syllables out of them! Good luck 💐

But he is their parent.

Change your name to daftandgrumpy

Where are you getting that from?

I am a laid back parent probably too laid back - but I also think they’re still young
3 and 4 yr olds should have the groundings of good behaviour. Honestly, I think laid back doesn't help at all. Find your voice and get your kids to behave.

Your dh needs to take a long hard look at his own behaviour.

In terms of managing the kids behaviour, what are your days looking like? Lunch or an early dinner may be easier if they are tired. Do they have quiet card games/drawing and toys to play with?

If the OP is the primary carer, either because she’s a SAHP or part time, then yes, she’s going to be the one instilling most of the behaviour (or not, in this case).

How exactly do you “discipline” a 3-year-old for behaving like a 3-year-old?
My daughter couldn’t sit perfectly politely at a table when she was 3. Now she’s 4 and she can. I’ve also met plenty of 4-year-olds who still struggled with it, then naturally improved by 5.
That’s called development, not bad parenting.
Toddlers aren’t miniature adults with full impulse control and emotional regulation. A lot of people who think every toddler behaviour can be punished out of a child seem to forget that some skills simply come with maturity and consistency over time. The only behaviour that can be improved in this situation is your husband's.

I completely agree with this. OP's DH needs to be actively parenting. I have always been a kind and attentive parent, this poster has given a really clear example of kind and attentive parenting.

My DC have frequently been praised for good behaviour and politeness. I believe that the OP is a kind and attentive parent with very low confidence, who has the misfortune to be married to a dictator.

The dictator is the lazy one, absolutely no effort or work to understand their, just barking out edicts and constantly busy being the most important person the family.

I don’t know, it’s not unreasonable to expect and instil behaviour but I wouldn’t say I’m on the DH’s side as he is doing nothing to achieve that. Having a tantrum, swearing at the kids, and then going off and leaving everything to his wife (I expect the usual) sounds like shit and lazy parenting to me.

What sort of holiday are you on and what activities are you doing? At 3 and 4 most children won’t be able to sit through long meals at a restaurant, particularly after a day of holiday activities. We have young children too and holidays at the moment are very kid focused, we do go out for food but it’s more relaxed family pubs or beach cafe type places.

OP this is also your thread from literally a week ago?
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/divorceseparation/5530004-experience-of-single-parenthood-and-finances

It's starting to sound like the main reason you're staying is because he earns a "huge salary" and can obviously pay for "dream holidays" were you get to be the laid back yummy mummy...

Same way you discipline them for everything else, surely? And also you build up to it by modelling good behaviour. Normal meal times at a table together. Out for coffee at a cafe where you can manage twenty minutes, most of which is taken up by the juice carton and snack, plus a few minutes’ chatting at the end whilst you finish your coffee. Firm voice if they start messing with the sugar/whathaveyou, and book/magazine/small toy if they get restless.

Practice practice practice and expect that yes, they can sit still for long enough for pizza and ice cream by the time the are three and four.

I know. That post made me roll my eyes. Mine started dangerously climbing out of his high chair at around 13/14 months old.

He's actually pretty good in restaurants though tbf. But we do take stuff to do. He is 5 now and still doesn't sit still, he wriggles around constantly but he does stay at the table and have a chat, does colouring etc... He also can identify now if he needs to leave the restaurant for a bit to move around whilst waiting and we can facilitate that.

Posters like that just don't seem to realise that children are wired differently. And it's more of a challenge to get some children to do certain things than others.

Because you reinforce it he’s fine a losing battle

Do not align yourself with OP's DH, you are doing yourself a disservice.

I would also suggest that aligning OP with your own lazy partner is wildly inaccurate.

There’s no such thing as a “dream holiday” with 3 and 4 year olds. Add a very grumpy arsehole of a man to the mix and you’re all going to have a horrid time.

My first thought was thank God I"m not staying at the same holiday destination because they must be really annoying to be around.
My second thought was how has it got to this stage before the father has actually realised his children are virtually uncontrollable?
Seems like a joint approach to teaching the children normal social behaviour needs to be agreed and implemented before the children get any older.

If he’s hoping the fundamentals of the holiday will run like it would be just with adults, things are not going to work. What time are you eating? Where are you going in the day?

Eating at past their normal bedtime and expecting them to (say) endlessly wander around shops without touching anything is going to be a disaster.