DH holiday misery - he’s fed up with the kids

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Writing this from what should be a dream holiday.
2 kids (3&4) who are generally terrible listeners, don’t care for consequences, don’t do as they’re told unless asked a million times. I am a laid back parent probably too laid back - but I also think they’re still young. DH however is not. He believes they’re should be sitting at the table speaking politely and enjoying family dinners peacefully every night.

he’s not enjoying himself one bit, kids are over excited, dysregulated, tired, a but run down but generally having a really lovely happy time. DH is so fed up, keeps saying it’s a waste of his time and money; how it’s ridiculous they just want me all the time, keeps hurrying then up like tonight trying to get them out and he says things like ‘we’re nit fucking around’ which I think is awful. He’s taken himself off to her tonight with no good night to anyone or omoffer if any help it’s feeling like he just Hayes his life!!

are aby 3/4 year olds that well behaved and eat everything ik their plate and don’t refuse food and have nice family conversation over lunch?

Im sorry but how is it that my 2 yo will sit at the table and eat her dinner then? It isn’t all down to “they are 3 so can’t control impulses” it is definitely a learnt behaviour too, my 2 yo has sat at the table with everyone eating her dinner since she could sit at the table, that is why she can do it- practice.

This is simplistic. You can of course train children to sit better, within reason. Go and look at young children in countries with stricter discipline than ours and you will see the evidence of this eg 4 year olds doing an hour of piano practise. Of course you have to allow for what is reasonable/age related but you can always improve from a low base. Some cultures are very good at ingraining respect for parents instructions/obedience from an early age. The uk is not, at the moment.

There is masses of evidence that strong, consistent parenting improves children's behaviour.

They are 3 and 4 and on holiday which is dyregulating in itself. I never used tech at the dinner table but I did take toys, colouring etc. and made dinners and a swift affair.

I didn't go on hotel holidays when they were that age as it would have been miserable for all of us. I am now a single parent and take them on loads of holidays on my own, even now they are older they get silly on holiday as they are kids and kids do that, but I do lower my expectations as we aren't in a rush for anything and wear them out with the pool, and then a strategic rest.

Your husband is being unreasonable but it isn't a shock, most men I know struggle with toddlers and young children and still expect to act like a holiday should be a relaxing time for them despite children being anything but relaxing.

If this is the case, and OP’s DH is abusive, then everyone’s advice would be v different.

OP, there’s no such thing as a ‘dream holiday’ with an abusive person. You must keep you kids away from the abuse.

Your 2 year old is an anomaly if they will sit at a table for hours eating dinner quietly and calmly while in an unfamiliar and likely hot place. But good for you.

I stopped reading when you said you’re a „laid back parent“ 😆

Your children are of an age where they can be expected to sit still for a meal. The fact that you’re not at least instilling a modicum of discipline and guidance in your kids is probably a contributing factor to your husband’s dissatisfaction. Step up woman and parent your kids. If they sit still for a meal they can have an ice cream or treat for pudding. Surely they can manage to sit down for 30 minutes.

Please don’t be that parent who lets their kids rule the roost and then complain if it causes friction with everyone else in their lives (nursery, school, friends etc.).

Oh I can’t be bothered with men like this but as you are all stuck with him

I would say you might be disappointed in the children and I am disappointed in you there is a whole heap of disappointment to go round how would you feel if I slammed down a fork and said “oh look now daddy has made mummy sad” do you know how fucking pathetic you sound and are actually being. Kids learn by example so what example are you setting?

I've never heard of 'nit fucking around' before, a new one on me.

He's taken himself off to, "Her" ? Who is she?

I know some people do find family holidays with young children a pain but most of us just get on with it. Sometimes we have to take one for the team and our kids are not small forever.

Your husband needs to pipe down and put up with it. He can't help how he feels but should not spoil things for you, certainly not go running off to 'her', whoever she is. That is appalling.

Next year find somewhere that has activities for young children. They'll enjoy that and it will tire them out.

Agree. We ate at a table for every meal from when my 3 x DC were babies in high chairs, pulled right up to the table without a tray. We took them out to eat from babies. But you have to involve and distract them. You can’t just expect them to sit there without adult interaction.

I agree with your DH that table manners are really important. Mine have always been expected to sit and behave during meals, and that has massively paid off as they now how to behave at anyone’s house, restaurants, etc. I’m not into the whole modern thing I see others doing of kids roaming around ‘grazing’ whenever it suits them, it is very ill disciplined. Children need firm boundaries, not wishy washiness, and it is frustrating when one parent allows the kids to rule the roost.

The only 'dream holiday' with 3&4 year olds involves a nanny/built-in childcare. Nice times can be had but it's not really a holiday for the parents and often easier to be at home with all their usual things around so i take his point on the money/time thing. We tending to stay near grandparents at that age so there was some help on hand, plus day trips to UK beaches etc., rather than doing proper holidays let alone ones with any pressure to be a dream. So much easier now they're older, but in this earlier years I'd cut each other some slack if poss.

🤦🏻‍♀️ i guess all my kids are then, rather than they were taught they are just anomalies ok 👌🏻

@Avie29 my two year old will sit and eat dinner quietly.

Together, especially with her brother, somewhere hot where they are out of routine and tired and fretful and hyper there’s a strong chance she won’t.

I have two children, one is a sitter and one isn’t. The one isn’t down to my great parenting and firm boundaries, the other isn’t down to my shit parenting and lackadaisical attitude, they are just different children with great things about them and challenging ones.

And I had a feeling the OP would be piled on this thread.

Recognising that some situations make parenting more challenging than others and picking your battles is just common sense.

Tackling their behaviour is something that you both need to work on at home. You do yourself no favours by being too laid back.

Whilst you are on holiday it is about manging as best as you can. At that age we simply were not going abroad but on UK holidays we realised we couldn't burn the candle at both ends otherwise we had tired, overstimulated children and it just wasn't enjoyable. This may be harder to do at an all inclusive.

On our last holiday abroad if we were having an evening meal out then we would have breakfast at the hotel, back to our pool for a play until lunch, lunch at our villa, a nap for our youngest whilst dh or I took the other two to the kids club or to the main pool, football or table tennis and then getting ready for dinner out. Neither of us felt hard done by as the point of a holiday with the kids is to spend time with them, yes it is nice if you both get time to relax but you really can build this in if you take the time and support each other. This requires active parenting from both of you. If all he is going to do is sit and complain then you won't get very far. I'd look at your itinerary for each day and see how you can change it to suit the kids.

But she doesn’t parent them at all

And says herself that their behaviour is good at school and nursery.

Taking your two young kids, who by your own admission, don’t listen, don’t follow instructions and have no regard for consequences was never going to work out well on a holiday. At 3 and 4, I wouldn’t expect them to be perfect, but I’d expect them to listen, follow instructions and sit for a meal. I’d be embarrassed if my dc behaved like that. Saying that you and your dh sound like you’re opposites and you need to meet in the middle. Your kids prob know both your parenting styles are so far apart and are confused.

All children are different, obviously, but I've always found that mine respond well to 'Listen. Can you hear anybody else shouting? That's because there's no shouting in the supermarket/cafe/restaurant/museum/etc.’

Edit: There might have been a glitch, thread still seems to work here:
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/divorce_separation/5530004-experience-of-single-parenthood-and-finances

Tbf, I'd be pissed off at you too. Kids being terrible listeners is 99% the parents fault. You don't lay clear expectations, you don't enforce them and you don't discipline them.

They are old enough to sit quietly for a meal. I've never allowed my kids to get down from the table at meals or run around like feral animals. They get told to do something or stop something once and once only. If they don't, I make them or I discipline them.

So if I've told them to turn off the TV and put their shoes on and they ignore me, they get taken straight to the car with no shoes on, they get cold feet and there is no TV tomorrow.

You kids behave the way you allow them to.

You both need to sit down and discuss this when you are both calm. His attitude isn’t great but sounds like the behaviour of DC isn’t great either. DS could sit nicely at a table to eat dinner at that age but didn’t have a sibling to bicker with! However, if we had had a full on day and he was tired then we would eat earlier as otherwise things could go wrong!

As others have said possibly during the day divide and conquer may be the way forward with each of you taking a child and doing something separately with them for part of the day.

You said that is is really hard being the disciplinarian partner (presumably referring to OP's DH), especially when the other parent (presumably OP) is lazy and doesn't give a shit. I don't think you just posted some random musings unrelated to the OP.

OP is unlikely to be a lazy parent who doesn't give a shit, she has made the effort to make a post asking for advice and I doubt the DH has packed everything the DC need or attended to their needs, other than what he 'needs' from them for his wants, which is another thing he is outsourcing to OP, hence her post.

What's the actual age gap?

There's a significant difference in what you'd expect of a child who is 38 months and a 4yo who might be in reception at school.

Presently on hols with Grandson who is 4 years 8 months and full time at pre-school. He sat happily with us, his parents and family friends for a restaurant meal last night. He'd not have managed that a year ago.

I think OP and partner needed to have had a discussion about discipline and expectations long before it became an issue on holiday.

Daughter and her hubby are mostly on the same page but he still gives in to GS wanting to be carried and if a carry is wanted making a fuss gets a carry. She can't manage carrying 'cos of the lad's weight and he doesn't even think about asking if Dad's not there.

@followtheswallow i am not implying i am a great parent and anyone who can’t get their 2 yo to sit at a table and eat nicely is a rubbish parent, what i am saying is children learn from behaviour around them from a very young age, i have been lucky in some of that- i have always had/made room to have a table in the home, my kids are all good eaters and not particularly fussy, but i also believe that my 2 yo will sit at a table and eat nicely (yes in unfamiliar surroundings too) because that is what she has always done from 6 months- sat at the table with family and eat, it is just normal for her.