DH holiday misery - he’s fed up with the kids

[weetabix80]

Writing this from what should be a dream holiday.
2 kids (3&4) who are generally terrible listeners, don’t care for consequences, don’t do as they’re told unless asked a million times. I am a laid back parent probably too laid back - but I also think they’re still young. DH however is not. He believes they’re should be sitting at the table speaking politely and enjoying family dinners peacefully every night.

he’s not enjoying himself one bit, kids are over excited, dysregulated, tired, a but run down but generally having a really lovely happy time. DH is so fed up, keeps saying it’s a waste of his time and money; how it’s ridiculous they just want me all the time, keeps hurrying then up like tonight trying to get them out and he says things like ‘we’re nit fucking around’ which I think is awful. He’s taken himself off to her tonight with no good night to anyone or omoffer if any help it’s feeling like he just Hayes his life!!

are aby 3/4 year olds that well behaved and eat everything ik their plate and don’t refuse food and have nice family conversation over lunch?

Lots of things going on here. I would really encourage you to sit down with your husband and agree what is a reasonable expectation for behaviour. It’s not really possible to tell from your post whether your kids are just normal 3-4 yos or particularly badly behaved but either way, you’ll get nowhere if you’re actively working against each other due to different expectations. You need to agree an approach and stick to it consistently, and that probably means compromise on both sides.

To the more general point, holidays with under 5s are different. Even with wonderfully behaved children it’s never going to be completely relaxed like a holiday pre-kids. I think a lot of
people take this on the chin and design their holidays with this in mind- you can’t really do a flop and drop holiday because you need to be actively engaged with the children, so it’s wasted on you and in fact makes you more stressed because you’re wishing you were lying on the beach with a pina colada not putting suncream on a wriggly child ten times a day.

I think for these early years it’s better just to accept that your holidays are going to be different- stay in the UK, plan activities with the kids in mind rather than pure relaxation. A lot of this stuff might be things you’d never have considered pre-kids eg go and see the local steam railway or go to the petting zoo. Really low key, child-focused stuff. Your kids will love it and probably behave better if they are engaged. You’ll feel less frustrated because you accepted upfront that this wasn’t going to be your dream holiday. (By “you” here I really mean “one” and am primarily thinking of your husband.)

(Obviously not saying you have to do holidays like this, and we used to do a mix- it’s just easier if you accept upfront that you need to engage actively with your children on holiday and plan the holiday with this in mind. It’s not a holiday from being a parent.)

I am /was a laid back parent but I could afford to be because my children behaved nicely and did what I asked them to. I didn't have many rules but the rules I had they followed. This included expecting them to sit at the table for a manageable amount of time

If your children are not following any instructions then you need a parenting rethink

Yes, your children should be able to behave a bit. His AIBU would be more just I think (although he needs to control temper/swearing). I think your parenting has pushed him to the edge.

What's wildly inaccurate is your assumption that I was talking about myself and my partner! I was speaking hypothetically. People can offer advice without it needing to be personal experience.

And no, not aligning myself to the DH at all, especially since remembering her previous threads. They throw a whole new light on this one.

Yes because mothers should do all of the parenting, while fathers can just be fed up it’s not been done to their liking. Very reasonable 🙄

@weetabix80 I have been through this with mine as well- what's making things hard is that they are TWO under 5 so they are getting excited together.

What I did was PLAN AHEAD. Let them eat and then do an acitivity- colouring, a game or if you need ipads for both with earphones. And tell them they will get the ipads/phones to play games/watch if they behave and eat nicely first.

A 3 and a 4 year old should be capable of sitting at the table for a meal but won’t be content with just chat, I used to be armed with crayons, colouring books, puzzle books and even plain paper, elder (read very early) would play simple hangman or boxes for hours and younger chatted and watch you colour rather than doing it herself. I travelled extensively with mine, not to child oriented places and they coped fine, but you need realistic expectations, eg for lunch we’d often resort on road trips to a large McDonald’s with play area (lived in USA) as it gave them time to let off steam, evenings I had a double buggy until they were 5&3 and they regularly napped in it but we also would seek out restaurants and venues with music for instance as they loved that as did we.

He’s right in that they should be able to sit and have a meal with you, just because they’re 3&4 doesn’t excuse their behaviour. However, how they act is as much his responsibility as it is yours. Has he put in any work towards their behaviour? I suspect not!!

My kids are strong willed / defiant. More than one professional childcare provider has commented on this.
I went for a 5pm dinner in a pub yesterday in this heat and nothing too weird happened and they sat nicely before a wander around.

He is clearly a problem but im not convinced you arent part of the issue there isnt some validity in it.
Blaming you is pointless though and he is acting like a child himself.
You need to get on the same page.

If I had to guess you are making each other more extreme by undermining each other. and your kids are the collateral damage. You get more horizontal he gets more "angry dictator"

You can "be right" or you can focus your energy on solving what is going to be a decade long problem if neither of you change or work together.

Send him off for a few hours to get a break / grip and have a conversation about how you can work togehter to change things.

As PPs have said, you need to take activities with you, eat early and if they aren't used to eating out it is going to be tricky. We took DS out to sit down restaurants from a very early age.

Your DH also need to model better behaviour and manners. Swearing is not acceptable; your DSs will take it into school and you will both be appalled and embarrassed.

I imagine OP would strongly resist any attempt he made to parent them.

Husband should not be swearing.
You should not be letting them run around.

He’s taken himself off to her tonight.

Who has he gone to spend the evening with?

The third child throwing a strop at the table would be the hardest to deal with, as you never ever agreed to parent the grown man who married you. I’d say very clearly you’re 42 or whatever and you can’t regulate your table behaviour so I don’t expect the 3 & 4 year olds to for 38 more years. They aren’t as embarassing though, and at least they don’t blame me for your behaviour. You’re 42, they are your children, you could parent too, get
the fuck over yourself with blaming me for this.

Adding, if your DH said: “We’re not fucking around” to (or in front of) the kids, he needs to shape up. Parents have to model respectful and considerate behaviour. Because kids learn through watching and copying.

If he’s rude, threatening and swears, the kids will end up behaving like that. Is that what he wants? If he’s constantly on his phone, the kids will end up being ‘device kids’ when old enough to have one and struggle to entertain themselves without it or make conversation with people. Is that what he wants?

Likewise, if he doesn’t want to play with, talk to or cuddle his kids, they won’t want to do that with him. He’ll be a distant, uninvolved, stern father. No fun. No real interest. They won’t enjoy being with him. They’ll be wary and sad. Sounds like it’s already happening. Again, is that what he wants?

Did he change when you became pregnant, and start resenting how your attention was no longer on centring him?

If not, I think you both need to do some research on parenting, setting boundaries, building behaviour that will benefit them when they start school.

Their first teachers are you both - but to be effective, you both first need to learn how to do it and be on the same page with what you both expect.

But if as you say he's gone off to 'her', then there are other problems in play.

Is it just me, or has this thread now vanished? 🤔

Yes, I would, and did, expect 3 and 4yr olds to sit quietly at the table, eat properly and not misbehave. Of course I’d pick family friendly restaurants and bring colouring books / stickers / quiet family games to entertain them with when needed.

It does take time and effort. Do you eat family meals sat down at a table with the kids at home?

Holidays with little kids are hard. Your DH hasn’t behaved well either.

It’s probably time to look at how you both parent and set some basic expectations.

Yep this! Divide and conquer is sometimes needed, mine are older now the older 2 15&14 can go off by themselves (at a theme park for example) but we have an autistic DS and his twin (11) and a 2 yo and on days out it can all be a bit much for OH, DS will start fretting, 2 yo will start getting tired and fretting, 11yo will get bored with waiting for us to sort out DS and 2yo and start moaning and it gets stressful, more so for OH as i am more laid back/have more patience or whatever- so we split, for example we visited theme park couple weeks ago, 2yo could only go on little rides, DS wanted the big rides and started getting upset that we were missing them so in the end i said to OH one of us takes 2yo on little rides/to the park/indoor play area the other takes DS and 11yo on bigger rides and we weren’t together for half the day but we had a much calmer nicer day.

This!

They should be able to sit at the table and eat a meal. They aren’t too young for that. If it’s a meal at home, they should also be able to do this without screens, colouring etc. If you’re going out for meals on holiday, then take colouring books, reading books, stickers etc for the time when you’re waiting for the food to arrive. Being able to eat together as a family is valuable as they grow up and go to school so it’s worth putting the effort in now so that it becomes a habit. They shouldn’t be running around at mealtimes.

I think everyone kind of needs to make a bit more efforts.
Your kids behaviour isn't unusual for their age, but maybe the type of holiday you've just taken them on isn't really appropriate for them.
It looks like they need more routine, familiar food, and quiet play times. It can't be fun for them either to be that tired every day.

They should definitely be able to sit down for a meal chatting with you about their day most days. Not every time, but most times, the same way they would sit down for meals at home every other day of the year.

And you and your husband need to talk and parent together, instead of arguing and criticising each other.
Your husband blaming you for their behaviour make sense to me if your response to every thing they do is "chill, they're kids". There is a difference between being laid back and being permissive.

You are completely confusing natural brain development with your own parenting tactics.
A 3-year-old’s prefrontal cortex physically lacks the impulse control required to sit still for long periods. You cannot 'practice' a child into a neurological milestone they aren't biologically ready for. When a child finally manages it at age 4 or 5, it’s because their brain matured, not because you ran enough café drills.
Parenting isn't a vending machine where you put in 'firm voices' and perfect behavior pops out. Expecting adult etiquette from a toddler doesn't make you a better parent; it just creates unrealistic expectations and unnecessary frustration for a child who is just acting their age.
You didn't 'train' your child to sit still; you just watched them grow up and took the credit for it

There's a balance.

He sounds a bit unrealistic. But just because they are hot/tired/away from home doesn't mean you just give up and impose no discipline, and its really wearing if you are the only parent telling the child to sit down while the other tolerates them running riot.

Also if you know they are struggling to regulate, are you doing the right things to help them behave e.g.

• not keeping them up late when tired, to facilitate adults enjoying evening entertainment
• not feeding them a holiday diet of sugar/junk
• trying to stick to a bit of familiar routine like allowing for a nap if your three year old needs one

Can we stop with this cod scientific nonsense? The vast majority of 4 year olds, and many 3 year olds are perfectly capable of sitting nicely - not perfectly still, not silently - in a normal restaurant or cafe if good behaviour has been consistently modelled.

I can kind of see why schools are a mess if people think laid back parenting means not controlling your children at all

I was, I would say, a pretty relaxed /fun parent - I didn't set thousands of rules or be controlling just for the thrill of it- but my children were always expected to meet basic expectations like following my water and road safety rules, going to bed at bedtime and siting at the table for a manageable amount of time ( with colouring or a small toy if we went out for dinner, but not a screen)