to think it is acceptable to smack someone if they touch your body, even if they have dementia?

[haleey]

I visit my grandad in a care home regularly and sometimes male residents will touch women unexpectedly. I’ve had my waist touched, boobs grabbed and one man touched my privates while smiling at me. I know they are ill and confused, but honestly I think people act as though women are supposed to just tolerate it because “they can’t help it”.

Part of this for me is that I have been assaulted before, so my reflex when someone suddenly touches me unexpectedly is to hit out before I even properly think. It is an automatic panic response.

Recently one resident suddenly grabbed me and I instinctively smacked his hand away. One of the staff immediately told me off and said “he can’t help it”. I understand that dementia affects behaviour and judgement, but I found it upsetting that the focus instantly became about him rather than acknowledging that I had just been touched without consent and panicked.

I’m not talking about beating vulnerable elderly people or deliberately hurting confused residents. But I also don’t think women should be expected to quietly accept unwanted touching because the person is elderly or cognitively impaired.

You do realise if you have never seen something, that it can still happen?

This is an entirelty diffrent situation snd not relevant.

What else would you call it?

You clearly have little idea about dementia.

My wonderful, very gentle and modest MIL's dementia eventually led to her exhibiting sexual behaviour. In no way did that reflect on who she'd been all her life. It is a very well known effect of some forms of dementia, and I find your take, expressed with such certainty, entirely wrong, and very upsetting.

I hope that you no longer work with people with dementia.

Maybe the care home should call the police then because I smacked the men who assaulted me.

Why are the care home not calling the police then?

Perfectly reasonable to swat a hand away in reaction - and given it's an instinctive reaction, much as a shove might be, you can't be blamed.

No one should have to 'be kind' to an adult man who is in the act of sexually assaulting them, regardless of what conditions he might have. Your own well-being should be your first priority.

I think you need to make a complaint to the home and ask them for a meeting to discuss what measures they have in place to reduce the risk of this happening. I'd make a note of every time this has happened and anything you remember e.g. description of the resident, time and place, staff present and their reaction. If I was you I'd say that I was also very concerned about the risk to more vulnerable women at the home including younger visitors and female residents.

What do the rest of your family think of this? Do you have any other concerns about the home? If so, could it be worth looking at moving your Grandad?

Well instead of having to look around you all the time, taking away from your time with your grandad, why do you not bring this to the attention of the staff and ask them to keep these men out of reach of your person ? It’s part and parcel of their duty of care. “Handsy’ and ‘sexual assault’ are very strong terms to be using when you’re talking about people in the grip of a degenerative and terminal brain disease, who are not in control of their actions, and would likely be horrified at themselves if they knew what they were doing.

Absolutely. Some forms of dementia can completely change personality and behaviours so it isn’t correct to assume prior tendencies.

Did your MIL use prostitutes prior to her dementia? I think pp's point was that this man had always been a bastard who felt entitled to women's bodies.

Well I'd smack away the hand of any other person. How is me stopping them assaulting me not respecting their rights as a person? Nobody has the right to grope me. I wouldn't do it hard.

Then I would of course keep my distance from them knowing they were capable of such things.

Nope. Never acceptable, never mind reasonable, to use physicality of this nature in response to something caused by disability. And yes, you can be blamed because there are other ways to respond - and yes, involving kindness, given that we’re talking about a degenerative and terminal brain disease over which the sufferer has no control. A simple removal of the hand, and removing yourself from reach will suffice.

I have brought it to the attention of the staff on several occasions. The staff turnover is very high. They are unable to accompany me everywhere every time I visit to 'guard me'.

It is still sexual assault even if they have a degenerative terminal brain disease.

The answer is I can't help it either it's just a reflex action, not deliberate.

The home need to manage this better. Speak to them and if you are not happy speak to the care commission

I will say this if the staff say that to me again.

They could, you don't have dementia but the residents do, how hard are these smacks, how many times have you done this to a resident.

I doubt ‘sexual assault’ while in the throes of what is effectively a terminal illness slowly destroying your brain, would stand in law if someone reported you to the authorities for lashing out in response.

Women with dementia assault men too. It happened to my husband.

But that poster said in her first line “the pervy men with dementia were once pervy young men”. So talking about multiple men. Then she only went on to describe ONE man who somehow she knew got syphalis from a prostitute. She does admit she has no idea what crimes he had committed. Was just guessing. How does she know all the other “pervy” mens history? Other than this one man? Would she call a 17 year old with severe SEN who grabbed a woman’s breasts a perv?

They could but they haven't so they are not considering me smacking them as assault.

Around 4 times. I have smacked them as a reflex each time and will continue to do so.

Actually, OP, the care home should report the incident to the police, as it is classed as a physical assault in the eyes of the law. You hit someone with a cognitive impairment, a very vulnerable person. This is a serious safeguarding incident.

It's really upsetting that this keeps happening to you and I agree you should ask to see him just in his room if it can't be avoided. It does seem quite unusual, I visited my FIL in a dementia unit many times without this happening, so perhaps the location of your visit needs to change.

But you're completely wrong that "it's still sexual assault even if they have a degenerative ." Sexual assault (indeed basically all crimes) require a mental element (in short the person doing them needs to be in control of or at least reckless about their actions). Someone with a terminal brain disease requiring them to live in a home is not in control of their actions.

I get that it feels like an assault to you/ impacts you in the same way. But it's not an assault and if you "hit back" you're punishing someone who has no control over their actions.

Really? So disability can excuse anything, can it? It doesn't matter what the person does to their victim, if they can't control it? That's disgusting.

Women are not obliged to repress their feelings at being sexually assaulted. If they react instinctively by physically removing a person's hand, they are well within their rights.

I cannot believe anyone would tell a woman (especially one who has previously suffered sexual trauma) that she didn't react nicely enough while being assaulted. She didn't haul off and punch him in the face, she smacked his hand away!

Besides, if she instinctively smacked his hand away because of trauma caused by past sexual assault, she also has a condition, and you can't judge her as she couldn't control herself in the moment either.