to think it is acceptable to smack someone if they touch your body, even if they have dementia?

[haleey]

I visit my grandad in a care home regularly and sometimes male residents will touch women unexpectedly. I’ve had my waist touched, boobs grabbed and one man touched my privates while smiling at me. I know they are ill and confused, but honestly I think people act as though women are supposed to just tolerate it because “they can’t help it”.

Part of this for me is that I have been assaulted before, so my reflex when someone suddenly touches me unexpectedly is to hit out before I even properly think. It is an automatic panic response.

Recently one resident suddenly grabbed me and I instinctively smacked his hand away. One of the staff immediately told me off and said “he can’t help it”. I understand that dementia affects behaviour and judgement, but I found it upsetting that the focus instantly became about him rather than acknowledging that I had just been touched without consent and panicked.

I’m not talking about beating vulnerable elderly people or deliberately hurting confused residents. But I also don’t think women should be expected to quietly accept unwanted touching because the person is elderly or cognitively impaired.

What you did was normal, healthy, fine, no problem. Men like that need to be taken away from women and visitors, obviously the staff were at fault.

I wonder if he ever grabs big blokes in bear hugs.

I’m 4ft11. If someone bigger than me grabs me, I’m absolutely going to shout & hit out.

Your reaction is completely understandable OP.
I wonder if the staff member's "telling off - he can't help it", was said more as an explanation rather than meant as a reprimand?

So, you complained to the care company? My son has a support worker. My son doesn't grab people but any inappropriate behaviour out in public is addressed. They wouldn't just brush it off. If you got the name of the company from the care worker, took the time to phone them, I hope you got a positive response.

I totally agree with you. You’ve just quoted a reply to someone else who said hitting and swatting were very different. I wouldn’t blame someone for doing either.

Thats not always the case it is a fact that some types of Dementia can affect peoole in that they become sexually disinhibited both males and females .

Yes to this .

I work in Healthcare , it is a problem with the grabbing , usually a firm relocation of the hand is enough but it depends on their intention (even if it is clouded with dementia)

I was pinched by a female resistent in a care home , I was sitting on a stool , she leaned forward and very painfully pinched on my leg mid thigh .
I did report it to her carer .
If they say "Oh watch out for Maud , she'll nip you" I'd have be warned .

Yeh if it wasn’t an involuntary smack I’d agree with this. Would you smack a baby that touched your boob, obviously not. If you felt it necessary you’d move the baby away or move yourself.

The carer was wearing a lanyard and ID badge so I knew the company, I don’t know what the final outcome was, but they were very reassuring on the phone that I had done the right thing by contacting them and they would investigate.

Quite possibly
My son would hit out at anyone he doesnt have the capacity to undestand the difference ; between small female/ big male
He doesnt get a chance too .

Gentle smack? Absolutely fine!

@Credittocress - good because poor support needs calling out. There was an occasion when my son was being poorly supported when out in the community (it was a matter of safeguarding). The manager of the local leisure centre took the time, trouble and care to ring the care company - I was always grateful to him.

And your point is?

Her point is these people could be dangerous sex offenders!
that’s the point
I’d want to know that my relative was safe and I’d contact the CQC and relay any concerns about whether the setting was appropriate if something serious occurred.

Or they might just have dementia, you would not be told about any residents history and the staff should hopefully risk assess everyone and report their concerns. Suggesting "these pervy men" were all once pervy young men is naive.

I used to work with dementia residents, but can't remember being grabbed anywhere private. People do sometimes grab when they're being transferred from wheelchair to chair because they feel insecure in the moment. I've had my upper arms (underneath) very painfully grabbed by elderly ladies with fingernails digging in. The men used to go for the younger, inexperienced carers, so we'd generally send more experienced staff who were wise to such things and wouldn't take any crap. Generally, if their physical illnesses and discomfort is far advanced then they don't bother anymore. The units which specialise in dementia probably have more problems. You just have to firmly remove their hands and not make a fuss otherwise it can encourage them. Obviously, we, as staff, couldn't be slapping them. It's up to the staff to distract and help a resident move away to another area if they're hassling visitors or other residents.

What matters is stopping it.

There are many, many, many people, often women, who consider it to be part of a woman’s role to absorb and not create a fuss around inappropriate male behaviour.

You just recognise that you don’t consider that as being part of your role as a woman.

Many women particularly enforce social roles very ardently as you have experienced but it is not for you to address their issues. Don’t get into a row about the wrongs and rights of the situation, you just decline the role.

You can visit without getting within touching distance. I’m really sorry if this sounds like victim blaming but if you know some of the old guys get handsy stay out of reach.

Dementia shouldn't override others' safety and wellbeing.

I had to facilitate a care home visit with a group of young people who were doing NCS when I was younger. Most of the young people in my group were black and Asian. The amount of racist abuse they received in the short time we were there was awful. The care home staff all said something along the lines of "they can't help it". I'd had just about enough and was thinking about how to cut the visit short. Then I hear one of the kids say "and I can't wait until you hurry up and die". One of the care home staff quickly reprimanded her saying "manners cost nothing". I took the kids outside and asked what was said. Apparently a resident had said "when are you N words going to leave?" I was mortified and saddened that this intergenerational visit was such an epic disaster. The poor kids were left to feel completely unwelcome and degraded and, being quite young myself, I was lost for any effective words of reconciliation. Many of these visits continued to happen at that same care home and it's awful to think what the kids had to endure. Nothing done because some of the residents "have dementia and can't help it".

The reality is they're no longer in their own heads. You might as well be angry with a wild animal. Which doesn't mean you have to just accept it and knocking him away is totally reasonable.

Healthcare workers in old age are the most frequently assaulted for a reason.

Personally think it's hideous that we know this but aren't allowed euthanasia instead of being condemned to live it out. However shit it is for you, imagine being him as he was watching himself now.

I mean what do you think should have been done? Their brains are rotten. The same might happen to you one day. All your world views and self control are the product of your undamaged brain and might be lost in an instant or agonisingly over many years.

Also I think trooping in a bunch of kids to gawp at them like Victorian tourists on a wheel round bedlam is pretty sick.

The physical.presence is different although granted the dementia patient is almost as vulnerable as a baby.
So ones instinct would identify a baby touching your boob as unthreatening - because you'd see it- but no baby is likely to approach you in a ward and reach out and touch unexpectedly whether from behind or in front.

Believe me the women are just as bad . They need to be kept away from each other . Sadly dementia strips one of all filters . I wouldn't personally stike a dementia patient though .