to think it is acceptable to smack someone if they touch your body, even if they have dementia?

[haleey]

I visit my grandad in a care home regularly and sometimes male residents will touch women unexpectedly. I’ve had my waist touched, boobs grabbed and one man touched my privates while smiling at me. I know they are ill and confused, but honestly I think people act as though women are supposed to just tolerate it because “they can’t help it”.

Part of this for me is that I have been assaulted before, so my reflex when someone suddenly touches me unexpectedly is to hit out before I even properly think. It is an automatic panic response.

Recently one resident suddenly grabbed me and I instinctively smacked his hand away. One of the staff immediately told me off and said “he can’t help it”. I understand that dementia affects behaviour and judgement, but I found it upsetting that the focus instantly became about him rather than acknowledging that I had just been touched without consent and panicked.

I’m not talking about beating vulnerable elderly people or deliberately hurting confused residents. But I also don’t think women should be expected to quietly accept unwanted touching because the person is elderly or cognitively impaired.

A child with brain damage or a severe learning difficulty might. I know a nurse who was sexually assault and partially scalped on a secure ward by a 12 year old boy. At what age does understanding or sympathy end?

What’s your opinion on Tourettes? If you’d have taken the children somewhere where someone or multiple people with Tourettes were saying “racist” things would you have explained why they weren’t saying it deliberately or would you have been posting with the same “they can’t help it” in quote marks and complaining that you were told nothing can be done?

Yes, but if the OP is sitting in a public room chatting with her grandad & these men are wandering round, does she need to get up & move whenever one gets close?

However shit it is for you, imagine being him as he was watching himself now.

No I don't want to imagine being the man who assaulted me.

The kids were there to provide entertainment, not "gawp at them". The whole programme has different groups and I had a group of performing arts. So they had some dances and 2 girls sang a song. But there was downtime in between.

What I would have hoped is for a stop to these visits. The outcomes weren't positive.

I hope you’re never allowed within ten miles of someone with dementia if that’s your attitude.

Yes I need to be looking around all the time instead of talking to grandad in case the some of the old guys sexually assault me. Handsy is diminishing it.

This 👌

As I said to another poster, my opinion is that these visits shouldn't happen if the racist abuse is so intense. There were multiple comments.

I understand dementia and tourettes can't be helped, but it doesn't override safeguarding children. The residents/service users are hardly going to feel hard done by if the kids didn't visit, and the kids wouldn't be subject to the abuse if they simply don't go. No harm done all round.

Exactly this. My mum was 95 when she died a few weeks ago and was in the advanced stages of vascular dementia. She said the most awful things to various visitors, all of whom knew mum and knew that this wasn’t the person she had been, it was the illness. And to answer OP’s question, no it’s never acceptable to ‘smack’ someone with dementia. Why on earth would you think it was ? Mum often grabbed parts of me, and lashed out, but as her main carer I understood that this was mainly out of fear and confusion. I would just gently remove her hands or hold her arms and explain to her that everything was ok and there was nothing to be afraid of. The thought that anyone could even consider physical punishment in response to disability is abhorrent.

That sounds tough, smacking someone is not ok, but if you tapped their hand to remove it, that would be OK. It's natural to respond but using force could be seen as assault.
Just a tip for anyone reading this, if a person with dementia is touching inappropriately, give them something to hold / play with, a soft blanket, a fiddle blanket etc. Try different textures if the first one doesn't work, it may be that they are seeking sensory stimulation rather than it being sensually orientated.
Talk to the home manager about how this touching affects you, ask if grandad can be kept away from this person when you are planning to visit.

Genuine question - When and where do the assaults happen? Just trying to understand to be able to best offer advice. I think this should be taken much more seriously by the staff, imagine if it was teenage girls or even younger that the men turned their attention to.

Are you in a communal area like sitting in the lounge with your Grandad and the men come over or walking to his room down the hall and you pass them?

Well this is interesting.
I witnessed an accident the other day when a car drove straight into a bike. Low speed so the cyclist (young f) was shocked but ok.
Driver got out, (middle aged M) and asked if she were ok. We three were then all standing in the middle of the road.

Here is the point of the story coming now….

He then ran his hands down her legs.
No reason whatsoever.
I thought I was seeing things and froze with horror.
She OTOH had the presence of mind to tell him to take his hands off her.

Would she have been justified in swatting his hands away? I think so.

If the staff know someone will sexuallt assault others they should have strategies in place to manage it. It sounds like this is a regular occurrence so you should make a complaint to CQC.

No I don’t think you’re allowed to smack men who are suffering from a progressive brain disease. Remove their hand and tell them to stop and then move away. They have holes in their brain.

I suppose it depends what you mean by smack. I took it to mean you gave him a hard wallop. A light swat is fine as it won’t hurt them.

Very unfair on you, OP.
At the very, very least they should be guarded and watched so this doesn't happen in the first place.
Totally unacceptable!

Yeah, smacking the hand away, not hard, is perfectly reasonable. It's a reflex almost isn't it? Obviously while saying something like 'oi, stop touching/groping me!'

The staff member who said you should accept being sexually assaulted is off their rocker.

Of course you're not going to the police as you know they can't help it really, but that doesn't mean blindly accepting being groped by a load of elderly people!

Erm yes. Once they hit teens they have appropriate teenage urges and not the understanding to deal with appropriately. Thats why they need careful management in public.

And I see no difference between slapping out at a child who doesn't understand and an adult. Push them away, shout no firmly, keep out of arms reach are all much better options. You can't control the impulse due to things outside your control and neither can they.

Did he have dementia ?

Not as far as I know

People with Dementia lack capacity to understsnd their actions , even with the risk assesments etc you cant eliminate all risk
Violence and agression can come out of knowhere that will be one of the ressons they are in a home in the first place.

Sometimes communal area or I am walking to his room to go and get him something and passing them.

Smacking away the hand is never ‘reasonable’. Because they have dementia doesn’t take away their rights as a person. If you know that they are not in control of their actions because of dementia, then you should also know that any level of physical response is not an appropriate way to treat disability.

I’m genuinely amazed how many residents are touching you. In all my years I’ve never seen this.

Yes because it is physical punishment in response to disability because I smack them after they assaulted me. The care home should call the police on me.