to think it is acceptable to smack someone if they touch your body, even if they have dementia?

[haleey]

I visit my grandad in a care home regularly and sometimes male residents will touch women unexpectedly. I’ve had my waist touched, boobs grabbed and one man touched my privates while smiling at me. I know they are ill and confused, but honestly I think people act as though women are supposed to just tolerate it because “they can’t help it”.

Part of this for me is that I have been assaulted before, so my reflex when someone suddenly touches me unexpectedly is to hit out before I even properly think. It is an automatic panic response.

Recently one resident suddenly grabbed me and I instinctively smacked his hand away. One of the staff immediately told me off and said “he can’t help it”. I understand that dementia affects behaviour and judgement, but I found it upsetting that the focus instantly became about him rather than acknowledging that I had just been touched without consent and panicked.

I’m not talking about beating vulnerable elderly people or deliberately hurting confused residents. But I also don’t think women should be expected to quietly accept unwanted touching because the person is elderly or cognitively impaired.

I agree, I'd reflexively swat someone's hand away in that situation. Besides if they have dementia that badly they'll just forget what you've done anyway.

Of course you arent wrong - its a natural reflex to defend yourself and its something you do subconsciously without being aware of it, its not like you are taking a butter knife to their throat FGS!

I'm a bit shocked and disgusted they expect you to just stand there whilst someone grabs your breasts or private parts - thats absolutely ridiculous and they should have risk assessments in place for this kind of behaviour. Pretty awful that they dont. If someone is that disinhibited then they shouldnt be in a communal area where they can sexually assault people

I hope these men are being kept well away from the women residents.

Its not like you kicked him in the head 😭

A smack of the hand to stop further sexual assault is fine

Fwiw though, ive been felt up by dd's autistic classmates (aged 7 ish) - a smack isn't okay then but this is a grown man

I would swat someone's hand away in that situation too.

Not exactly a hard "smack" was it - more a swat.

I was in a coffee shop and there was a young lad who was about 6ft 3 with his carer who grabbed me into a bear hug. Scared the shit out of me. I shoved him away very hard, and his carer told me, “he’s just friendly and loves people” 😳

I made a complaint, if a single carer can’t control him then he shouldn’t be out with just one. My body doesn’t become public property simply because he doesn’t understand.

If it was an instinctive involuntary reaction, then I don't think you could really help it any more than the elderly person with dementia could help their lack of self control. I would probably have the same reaction. It is natural to want to defend yourself.

I think it would be different if it was a calculated, premeditated response.

I feel really sorry for the female staff working in that environment if they are expected to just suck it up.

Of course, these men may be too unwell to understand what they're doing, but it is still an upsetting experience for any woman on the receiving end of unwanted physical contact, and we shouldn't just be expected to shrug it off as if it's nothing.

I wouldn’t do it but I never got close enough to any old man during my numerous care home visits for them to touch me. It seems very odd to put yourself in touching distance if this happens repeatedly.

Could you have stepped firmly back instead of smacking? Difficult situation.

Yes I should not visit grandad as I put myself in touching distance of these men 🙄

The smacking is a reflex because I have been assaulted in the past.

Surely it’s not that simple? Presumably these men are mobile. OP would have to be constantly looking over her shoulder.

It’s difficult really because I think if you’d have said a young lad with SEN out with carers/parents and you hit him the replies would be very different. Despite the fact neither party could “help it”, there’s definitely more allowances made for younger people with SEN than elderly people with dementia.

Instinctively- fine

Retribution- not fine

I’d speak to the home manager about it and I would raise a concern
there’s an element of dementia here but then if people are touching people and smiling - that is something else!

Are young lads with SEN out with their parents or carers often grabbing women sexually?

I worked in a nursing home in my late teens, those pervy male dementia patients were once young pervy men. Our worst resident had only been released from a secure psychiatric unit because he was now too old and weak to do much damage. He had been in the secure unit due to brain damage caused by syphilis caught from a prostitute! He’d always believed he was entitled to women’s bodies! What crime he committed to get himself held for decades in a secure unit, I wasn’t privy to but almost certainly a sex offence!

Yes the line is a calculated slap which would be really unacceptable. But as an immediate instinct you kind of can't help.that. Your body doesn't know to what extent you're being attacked and your immediate reaction is there for a reason it could have saved your life under other circumstances.

I have no idea. I’ve never been grabbed by either. So I can’t tell you how often either one happens. But I’ve read threads on here before about both happening. I don’t think it necessarily matters if there’s sexual intent either. Being grabbed whatever the reason can startle someone and they can still react.

Swatting someone’s hand away is not the same as hitting them. Not even close.

I understand your reflex, OP, but neither do I think that you were being expected “ to quietly accept unwanted touching”. It would help to discuss with the staff how to deal with incidents like that.

I guess you could have responded to "He can't help it" with "Neither can I".

YANBU. IMO, anyone is allowed to use reasonable force to stop themselves being touched by anyone, of any age, inappropriately.

I think if someone said they didn’t hit their child they just smacked their hand away I think most people would still call it hitting. The OP used smacked. I used hit. You used swat. Your version is by far the mildest. I would say smacking and hitting are very similar.

The OP can’t help a reflex action any more than the person with a disability.

It’s natural to react when someone grabs you- it’s literally the same reflex as jerking back when a car is suddenly coming towards you.

There is nothing for the op to feel guilty about whatsoever