to think it is acceptable to smack someone if they touch your body, even if they have dementia?

[haleey]

I visit my grandad in a care home regularly and sometimes male residents will touch women unexpectedly. I’ve had my waist touched, boobs grabbed and one man touched my privates while smiling at me. I know they are ill and confused, but honestly I think people act as though women are supposed to just tolerate it because “they can’t help it”.

Part of this for me is that I have been assaulted before, so my reflex when someone suddenly touches me unexpectedly is to hit out before I even properly think. It is an automatic panic response.

Recently one resident suddenly grabbed me and I instinctively smacked his hand away. One of the staff immediately told me off and said “he can’t help it”. I understand that dementia affects behaviour and judgement, but I found it upsetting that the focus instantly became about him rather than acknowledging that I had just been touched without consent and panicked.

I’m not talking about beating vulnerable elderly people or deliberately hurting confused residents. But I also don’t think women should be expected to quietly accept unwanted touching because the person is elderly or cognitively impaired.

I agree, the care home sounds like an unsafe place for residents as well as visitors. Probably staff too.

Yes because that is the real issue here - me assaulting residents.

Surely they have still been raped, but the person who did it might not be a rapist?

Everyone is welcome to report me and also barr me from the home.

Happy?

No actually none of that is true. A simple google will give you the exact definition of sexual assault and rape and will explain capacity to stand trial.

Are the carehome happy for you to smack their residents

It's absolutely not assault. It's self defence. Slapping a hand away in response to a sexual assault is absolutely reasonable force to protect herself. If she punched him in the head and kicked him then no that is not reasonable. Jesus wept. So women can't even defend themselves against assault now because they are then the ones accused of assault. Misogyny alive and well.

In any other setting there may be mitigating circumstances for this kind of reaction. But OP is visiting a care home where she knows there are dementia patients. That puts a different complexion on things because she’s actually physically assaulting people who she is fully aware are suffering from degenerative terminal brain disease, and who have no capacity to understand what they are doing. That’s not instinct, it’s intentional assault against a vulnerable person.

OP has no business visiting a care home of this nature if this is her attitude - they are intended to protect the vulnerable from people like her, who as far as I can see have no empathy or understanding of the condition, and no respect for the sufferers if she’s treating them all as ‘dirty old men’.

I know they’re not the same, but a determined toddler can definitely chase you down (my 18 month old disappeared under my friends skirt earlier) and thought it was a game when she tried to remove him. However, I think you instinctively react to a man with dementia/learning difficulties as it’s not immediately obvious their judgement is impaired in the way everyone recognises that 18 month old don’t really know what they’re doing. but I do think if you’ve thought it through it’s not appropriate to smack someone when you know they don’t understand - you're not teaching them a lesson, it’s cruel. If you instinctively react then it’s not wrong.

I mean yes it's a pretty serious issue.

I feel like you came on here wanting a round of applause at your stories of repeatedly slapping old disabled men with no cognitive facilities.

In your shoes I would be taking urgent steps to get my family member out of a place which can't protect visitors from residents and which turns a blind eye to residents being assaulted by visitors. Instead you seem to think it's great and vindicating that the staff don't mind you hitting the patients. What a worrying state of affairs.

Are the carehome happy for residents to assault women?

Is this a specialist dementia home, someone will eventually report this but you think its OK to carry on.

I wonder if female dementia patients touch men inappropriately with the same frequency as men seem to do it.

The care home sounds pretty shit if they can’t safeguard both visitors from being grabbed and residents from being slapped.

Dunno, doubt it, have you asked them, is your relative safe there.

I do agree that it seems like a poorly run care home, which isn't safeguarding either residents, or visitors. I can only imagine the residents may be assaulting other residents too, and this laxness also could be indicative of other issues in the facility.

Have you had a family member in one of these places? They are hard to get a space in, often there is a significant change over in staff because they are very difficult environments and one part of that is sexualised behaviour is a common issue and staff are exposed to it too.

Are you speaking from a place of experience and understanding or very idealised view of how things should be.

My DF has been in a nursing home for over 3 years and I visit frequently. Yes, you do need to be aware of other residents and move away from them if necessary. You’re in an environment populated by people whose illness can make them behave in unpredictable and inappropriate ways.

I absolutely agree if it’s not immediately obvious they have dementia or their judgement is impaired in other ways but the setting here is a care home. The residents are there for the simple reason that they are vulnerable and need the protection and care offered by the facility. OP is fully aware of that, but still seems to think she has the right to override it and to feel free to physically assault anyone who lays a hand on her, with no empathy or critical thinking applied. Just smack the hand away. I sincerely hope it’s not too long before a relative notices and reports it, because it seems that’s the only way of stopping her.

Maybe they should considering you have capacity and they don’t.

You’ve said you intend to continue doing it so it’s not a reflex. You’re also taking no steps to prevent it happening like staying out of reach.

It's definitely not appropriate or advisable to smack anyone really to teach them a lesson much less someone without capacity. Withdrawing is the best advice in all situations. But to quickly move someone's hand away instinctively without registering consciously could involve a slap which doesn't injure- and that is what I meant was understandable.
N B- a grown man is also unlikely to be unexpectedly under your skirt- and your body probably knows this!

Residents are placed in care homes because they’re vulnerable. If a visitor is repeatedly assaulting them in response to behaviour over which they have no control, then the staff are failing in their assigned duty of care. How is that idealistic ? This is tantamount to being an apologist for poor care for which many residents are paying with their life savings and assets.

Agree, it's not a punishment it's getting the offending hand away from you. The person being cognitively impaired doesn't mean you should put up with it. If the staff aren't ok with it then they need to manage the situation better, you can't expect random members of the public to know how to handle gropey dementia patients.

Yes unfortunately, as I said above, my beloved FIL who I've known since I was a teenager, lived for a number of years, and died, on a dementia ward in a care home.
His terrible brain disease made him act in a way I knew he would never have done and would have been ashamed of. If he could have gone forward in time at the time of his diagnosis and seen himself at the worst point of his decline I think he'd have taken his own life to avoid it.
It was extremely upsetting knowing he was living there. We moved him twice to the right place. And I would have moved him again in a heartbeat if I knew staff were allowing him to hurt visitors or visitors to hurt him.