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AIBU?

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to think it is acceptable to smack someone if they touch your body, even if they have dementia?

1000 replies

haleey · 25/05/2026 12:38

I visit my grandad in a care home regularly and sometimes male residents will touch women unexpectedly. I’ve had my waist touched, boobs grabbed and one man touched my privates while smiling at me. I know they are ill and confused, but honestly I think people act as though women are supposed to just tolerate it because “they can’t help it”.

Part of this for me is that I have been assaulted before, so my reflex when someone suddenly touches me unexpectedly is to hit out before I even properly think. It is an automatic panic response.

Recently one resident suddenly grabbed me and I instinctively smacked his hand away. One of the staff immediately told me off and said “he can’t help it”. I understand that dementia affects behaviour and judgement, but I found it upsetting that the focus instantly became about him rather than acknowledging that I had just been touched without consent and panicked.

I’m not talking about beating vulnerable elderly people or deliberately hurting confused residents. But I also don’t think women should be expected to quietly accept unwanted touching because the person is elderly or cognitively impaired.

OP posts:
blythet · 27/05/2026 11:40

I’m curious OP, you started this post to ask if it was acceptable to smack someone when they touch your body, even if they have dementia?

the vast majority of replies have said they don’t feel it’s acceptable, yet you argue with each reply.

genuine question - what is the point of your post?

there are also follow up posts where you’ve said the staff have never had an issue with you smacking the residents, but your very first post says they did?

bellsofnorwich · 27/05/2026 11:40

People can't even read the thread title correctly.

People can't even read the opening sentences, and grasp that there have been multiple sexual assaults on the OP by multiple male residents. The last one was by a man who, after he'd grabbed OP and she'd batted his hand away, the nurse informed her had dementia. It doesn't mean they all have dementia and therefore can be allowed to paw and grab as they wish.

And people bring their own experience and globalise it: eg "Most care home residents have dementia." Er, no, they don't. There are many reasons why people of all ages end up in care homes.

bellsofnorwich · 27/05/2026 11:43

the vast majority of replies have said they don’t feel it’s acceptable, yet you argue with each reply.

And 80% voted that OP was not being unreasonable.

ParmaVioletTea · 27/05/2026 11:43

Confuserr · 26/05/2026 20:37

You're wrong about the "light tap" which you seem to have made up to make yourself feel better.

But in any event my point was a different one. OP thinks she was assaulted (despite the person doing the act has no capacity aka did not "choose" to do it) but refuses to accept that the same logic means she is committing assault. She says she didn't choose to do it, she is relying on her mental impairment as justification but ignoring theirs.

Yes, this.

And I find the equation of serious intentional sexual assault with the poorly-managed disinhibition of residents with serious & incurable & deteroriating brain damage on this thread to be really unreasonable.

I am in no way an apologist for sexual harassment or assault, but the the poorly-managed disinhibition of residents with dementia bad enough that they need to live in a care home is not the same thing.

But then the ignorance about dementia, and the ageism & ableism on this thread is shocking.

ThreadGuardDog · 27/05/2026 11:49

WhatNoRaisins · 27/05/2026 11:34

It would stop all that report to the CQC/cancel the cheque stuff though.

Doubtful. OP didn’t disclose until page 25 that she had complained to the home each time, and it wasn’t until page 31 that we discovered she had started her own complaint to the CQC. Up to that point it was all about her own responses and how people who disagree with her are victim blaming.

ThreadGuardDog · 27/05/2026 11:51

ParmaVioletTea · 27/05/2026 11:43

Yes, this.

And I find the equation of serious intentional sexual assault with the poorly-managed disinhibition of residents with serious & incurable & deteroriating brain damage on this thread to be really unreasonable.

I am in no way an apologist for sexual harassment or assault, but the the poorly-managed disinhibition of residents with dementia bad enough that they need to live in a care home is not the same thing.

But then the ignorance about dementia, and the ageism & ableism on this thread is shocking.

I’ve been searching for a way to put things succinctly and failed. This nails it. Well said.

ThreadGuardDog · 27/05/2026 11:52

bellsofnorwich · 27/05/2026 11:43

the vast majority of replies have said they don’t feel it’s acceptable, yet you argue with each reply.

And 80% voted that OP was not being unreasonable.

Which is personal opinion. You only have to look at the vast majority of the comments supporting OP to see the ignorance around dementia at play. Many posters simply falling on OP’s side because we’re talking about men. And according to MN men are always to blame - even when they’ve lost capacity. Doesn’t matter that they’re suffering from a terrible and degenerative brain disease that has robbed them of control over their actions - they must be pervs and they must be aware of what they’re doing, so they deserve a smack. They’re regarded as sex pests with no nuance, understanding or even common sense. This is what’s feeding into the vote, and it renders it meaningless.

ParmaVioletTea · 27/05/2026 11:56

ThreadGuardDog · 27/05/2026 11:51

I’ve been searching for a way to put things succinctly and failed. This nails it. Well said.

Wait till I get piled on for excusing rape, or some such twaddle.

I just hope that PPs on this thread who think the OP is reasonable don't have people they love with dementia. Watching someone you love disappear from themselves, and knowing there is only one way the illness goes, is pretty horrible.

ThreadGuardDog · 27/05/2026 12:09

ParmaVioletTea · 27/05/2026 11:56

Wait till I get piled on for excusing rape, or some such twaddle.

I just hope that PPs on this thread who think the OP is reasonable don't have people they love with dementia. Watching someone you love disappear from themselves, and knowing there is only one way the illness goes, is pretty horrible.

I lost mum six weeks ago at the age of 95, after a prolonged battle with vascular dementia. We managed to keep her at home with great GP support, a hospital bed and wonderful district nurses. I watched her disappear in front of me. Everything she was as a person, everything she was to me as a mum, gone. Long before she passed away. It got to the stage where I was praying for her to die because every day was agony for her and in her fleeting lucid moments there was terror in her eyes as she realised - thankfully only for seconds at a time - what was happening to her.

The pain responses were different too - what to you and I would be a light tap, caused her immeasurable pain. This was something explained to me by the district nurses because they used specialised equipment and sheeting to move her minimising any pain caused by normal touch. That’s why I object so strongly to the notion that a tap, swat or smack is harmless. It also suggests that they will learn from it - they won’t. The capacity for learning has gone, at best they will perceive they are being punished and have no idea why.

Thankfully I got my wish that mum died peacefully at home in her sleep and I didn’t have to put her into care and risk the kind of treatment meted out by those who think like OP.

MissMoneyFairy · 27/05/2026 12:14

haleey · 27/05/2026 10:24

Agreed 100%

There is no bun fight, just some disagreements which are part of being on a forum.

If you think your reaction is justified and proportionate why did you start your thread with a question mark, are you doubting yourself, expecting a solution from the carehome staff or looking for validation,

WhereistheAC · 27/05/2026 12:19

ParmaVioletTea · 27/05/2026 11:56

Wait till I get piled on for excusing rape, or some such twaddle.

I just hope that PPs on this thread who think the OP is reasonable don't have people they love with dementia. Watching someone you love disappear from themselves, and knowing there is only one way the illness goes, is pretty horrible.

My dad had very early onset dementia (he was only late thirties) and it was devastating to witness as a teen. He was a lovely man, however I would've fully understood someone slapping his hand away, if he'd tired to grope them. Imo, it's just a natural instinct, even if you haven't got SA related PTSD.

And before someone says that's different because he wasn't elderly and frail, he used a walking stick and couldn't walk very far at all.

Confuserr · 27/05/2026 12:28

ThreadGuardDog · 27/05/2026 12:09

I lost mum six weeks ago at the age of 95, after a prolonged battle with vascular dementia. We managed to keep her at home with great GP support, a hospital bed and wonderful district nurses. I watched her disappear in front of me. Everything she was as a person, everything she was to me as a mum, gone. Long before she passed away. It got to the stage where I was praying for her to die because every day was agony for her and in her fleeting lucid moments there was terror in her eyes as she realised - thankfully only for seconds at a time - what was happening to her.

The pain responses were different too - what to you and I would be a light tap, caused her immeasurable pain. This was something explained to me by the district nurses because they used specialised equipment and sheeting to move her minimising any pain caused by normal touch. That’s why I object so strongly to the notion that a tap, swat or smack is harmless. It also suggests that they will learn from it - they won’t. The capacity for learning has gone, at best they will perceive they are being punished and have no idea why.

Thankfully I got my wish that mum died peacefully at home in her sleep and I didn’t have to put her into care and risk the kind of treatment meted out by those who think like OP.

I'm so sorry for your recent loss @ThreadGuardDog

ParmaVioletTea · 27/05/2026 12:40

So sorry for your loss @ThreadGuardDog My parent remained fairly physically OK although died very swiftly at 90 from a lung infection in the end - the dementia made them more vulnerable to this.

I think the scariest bit of dementia is that period - which can last for at least 5 years - when the person knows what is happening to them. I saw this with both my grandparent & parent. It's something I try not to think about for myself, but of course, that's not going to work, is it?

And if carers have the attitudes of some people on this thread - - well, I despair.

haleey · 27/05/2026 12:50

ChalkOutlines · 27/05/2026 11:25

I know, however , a lot of people only read the OP or they take a stance based on it and refuse to acknowledge anything that goes after, because once you’re in the wrong , you must stay there, no matter how reasonable your concerns actually are.

Welcome to Mumsnet.Grin

So true 😂

OP posts:
haleey · 27/05/2026 12:53

bellsofnorwich · 27/05/2026 11:40

People can't even read the thread title correctly.

People can't even read the opening sentences, and grasp that there have been multiple sexual assaults on the OP by multiple male residents. The last one was by a man who, after he'd grabbed OP and she'd batted his hand away, the nurse informed her had dementia. It doesn't mean they all have dementia and therefore can be allowed to paw and grab as they wish.

And people bring their own experience and globalise it: eg "Most care home residents have dementia." Er, no, they don't. There are many reasons why people of all ages end up in care homes.

This nails it.

OP posts:
ThreadGuardDog · 27/05/2026 13:05

ParmaVioletTea · 27/05/2026 12:40

So sorry for your loss @ThreadGuardDog My parent remained fairly physically OK although died very swiftly at 90 from a lung infection in the end - the dementia made them more vulnerable to this.

I think the scariest bit of dementia is that period - which can last for at least 5 years - when the person knows what is happening to them. I saw this with both my grandparent & parent. It's something I try not to think about for myself, but of course, that's not going to work, is it?

And if carers have the attitudes of some people on this thread - - well, I despair.

I can understand that. Four members of my mum’s (admittedly large) family developed vascular dementia - three siblings and my grandmother. Witnessing first hand what happened to mum and how much she suffered makes me very afraid to even think about it in terms of myself. The onset of mums’ was quite sudden in her late eighties - it began with forgetfulness which we put down to age but it soon became clear something was seriously amiss. She received her diagnosis amid the shit show that was Covid so there was very little support for the fact that, as you say, there is a period of time when sufferers are aware of what’s happening and, in mum’s case could track the decline for a while. It’s such a cruel disease for all concerned and to see it discussed in almost throwaway terms as it has been a lot of the time here, is quite distressing.

ThreadGuardDog · 27/05/2026 13:06

haleey · 27/05/2026 12:53

This nails it.

If you’re ignorant, uncaring and know next to nothing about the nature of dementia, then yes, it nails it.

FunMustard · 27/05/2026 13:13

ThreadGuardDog · 27/05/2026 11:26

You didn’t disclose until well into the thread that you had reported to the CQC - you responded several times that it was your intention to keep on smacking the people. And that was what elicited a lot of the responses.

Well that's certainly a way of interpreting what she said.

haleey · 27/05/2026 13:25

WhereistheAC · 27/05/2026 12:19

My dad had very early onset dementia (he was only late thirties) and it was devastating to witness as a teen. He was a lovely man, however I would've fully understood someone slapping his hand away, if he'd tired to grope them. Imo, it's just a natural instinct, even if you haven't got SA related PTSD.

And before someone says that's different because he wasn't elderly and frail, he used a walking stick and couldn't walk very far at all.

Same.

I would understand someone doing the same to my grandad if he touched them inappropriately too.

OP posts:
Differentforgirls · 27/05/2026 13:27

haleey · 27/05/2026 09:49

Hence the people who keep saying step back, move out of the way, change your behaviour.

But that's exactly what you have to do. After my husband was groped, we just looked to see where the person was when we went in and avoided her.

ThreadGuardDog · 27/05/2026 13:28

bellsofnorwich · 27/05/2026 11:40

People can't even read the thread title correctly.

People can't even read the opening sentences, and grasp that there have been multiple sexual assaults on the OP by multiple male residents. The last one was by a man who, after he'd grabbed OP and she'd batted his hand away, the nurse informed her had dementia. It doesn't mean they all have dementia and therefore can be allowed to paw and grab as they wish.

And people bring their own experience and globalise it: eg "Most care home residents have dementia." Er, no, they don't. There are many reasons why people of all ages end up in care homes.

Most care home residents have dementia." Er, no, they don't. There are many reasons why people of all ages end up in care homes.

70% of all UK care home residents are estimated to be suffering from dementia or some other form of severe cognitive impairment. About two thirds are diagnosed, and the rest are estimated to be suffering from some form of undiagnosed dementia. Dementia sufferers occupy the vast majority of care home beds, despite only about a third of all people formally diagnosed with dementia actually living in care facilities. So it’s vastly more likely than not, that the residents you encounter in a care home will have some form of the disease when you consider that on admission they weren’t formally diagnosed, or they were admitted because of other difficulties before diagnosis.

OP disclosed that she had encountered this four times, and on four separate occasions she had smacked away the hand of the perpetrator. My problem with this is that OP is visiting a care home and is perfectly aware that some of the residents will have some form of cognitive impairment affecting capacity. In that situation, after the first incident I would be insisting on private visiting facilities to protect myself from further problems. OP doesn’t seem to have done this, preferring instead to double down on the notion that physically assaulting vulnerable residents is acceptable. That this has happened four times, clearly suggests that the care home are at fault, but four times also suggests that OP needs to request private visiting facilities and protect herself.

It doesn't mean they all have dementia and therefore can be allowed to paw and grab as they wish.

It’s been explained over and over again that for those with dementia, there is no control or understanding these actions. They are involuntary and as a result of the illness, or in many cases, some of the medications used to control it. Are you suggesting that residents without dementia are engaging in this behaviour too ? Because as much as I disagree with OP’s actions, to be fair to her, at no point has she suggested this. The discussion is pertaining to dementia sufferers. It’s in the thread title. Are you sure you’re reading correctly ?

Differentforgirls · 27/05/2026 13:32

ThreadGuardDog · 27/05/2026 10:10

I stepped away from this thread a few days ago because l found many of the comments difficult - I’ve recently lost my mum to vascular dementia.

It popped up again for some reason this morning and I’ve been reading the subsequent comments. There are a few things which stand out. The main one seems to be a complete lack of knowledge surrounding the law protecting the vulnerable.

Firstly, the home have a duty to report the incident to the police. Care homes have a duty of care to protect both their residents and visitors - some on the thread have suggested there is no duty of care to visitors, which is not true. Reporting ensures that the incident is documented, and that the care home reviews the resident's care plan to prevent future incidents.

Secondly, the law provides protection for vulnerable adults and does not hold anyone responsible for their actions if they have lost capacity. So the inappropriate touching and grabbing OP describes would not be treated as would an assault by a person who has capacity - because there is no intent. It’s an action brought about by illness (and in many cases associated medication).

The law does, however, hold those with capacity responsible for their actions in ‘retaliation’. OP has described the fact that she has smacked away the hands of these residents on four separate occasions, and that she intends to continue. Smacking, slapping, swatting - whatever term posters want to use to diminish the impact - is inappropriate and in the eyes of the law can be assault in itself because here there is intent. The correct response is remove the hand, try to remove yourself from the situation and to call for help.

Regarding ‘lock these people away’. That’s also against the law. It’s deprivation of liberty. To even put cot sides on the bed of a dementia patient for their own protection, or to lock a door to prevent them wandering you need a court of protection deprivation of liberty order. You can’t simply lock someone in their room. If these incidents are as frequent and as serious as OP describes then under the social care act, the home have a duty to seek assessment as to whether transfer to a more secure facility is appropriate for the safety of others and the safeguarding of the resident themselves.

Can I also point out to all those who think a swat or a swipe is ‘harmless’ that in many forms of dementia - especially when advanced - pain and fear responses are heightened, and what to you might be a light tap, can cause real pain to a dementia sufferer. The district nurses handling my own mum during home care were very careful when moving her and used specialist equipment to minimise the pain everyday touch could cause. It’s also pointless because you can swat away ad nauseam and it won’t make any difference - there is no capacity to learn. All that will happen is that the person will perceive that they have been punished and they will have no idea why.

The degree to which dementia is misunderstood here is saddening. There seems to be a desire to apportion blame simply because these are men - so the assumption is that they ‘know what they’re doing’ or must have been a ‘perv’ in earlier life seems to be the prevailing opinion. That grown, intelligent women can perpetrate this kind of ignorance is quite shocking. Sexual disinhibition is a common factor in dementia and can be very prevalent in certain types of the disease - applying equally to women and manifesting in various ways. It absolutely does not come from a place of intent. It’s the result of a devastating disease destroying various areas of the brain, responsible for different functions and behaviours. This is a fact that seems to have been lost throughout this thread and anyone having the temerity to suggest it has been shouted down.

This is one of the worst threads I’ve seen on MN, and I’m actually surprised it’s still standing given the ableist content. I have no idea why OP posted, because she doesn’t seem to want to take any responsibility for her own actions - citing it as a ‘reflex’ trauma response because of PTSD, and demanding mitigation, while at the same time being incapable of understanding or tolerant of other similar and infinitely more severe vulnerabilities. She seems to be intent on continuing to bat her way through the residents, regardless of the consequences. Rarely have I seen such lack of self awareness, entitlement and lack of regard for others, including rude and insulting responses to anyone who dares question her actions.

I agree with a pp who says that this thread is a perfect example as to why care work should not be seen as unskilled and suitable for anyone to take up. There are some commenters here who shouldn’t be within a mile of a vulnerable person, and I sincerely hope that they or their loved ones never have to suffer the indignities and the ignorant attitudes that come with a dementia diagnosis. Thankfully this thread is nearly over, so I’ll leave you all to continue your bunfight.

Edited

👏👏👏

Differentforgirls · 27/05/2026 13:33

bellsofnorwich · 27/05/2026 10:16

Not sure why you felt the need to write an essay/general rant about the entire thread in response to my brief post. If the subject is so distressing for you, hide the thread. Please don't blame me for your own return to the thread.

Meanwhile, minimising PTSD, and sexual assault - regardless of the perpetrator - and acting as if the OP, who is visiting her grandfather after all, should have no boundaries because you lost your mother to dementia is an odd grief response and has involved a lot of assumptions and projection.

FOUR TIMES. Yet never reported it. Just hit the person.

haleey · 27/05/2026 13:38

Differentforgirls · 27/05/2026 13:33

FOUR TIMES. Yet never reported it. Just hit the person.

TRY READING.

It helps.

OP posts:
haleey · 27/05/2026 13:40

Differentforgirls · 27/05/2026 13:27

But that's exactly what you have to do. After my husband was groped, we just looked to see where the person was when we went in and avoided her.

You give such good advice to sexual assault survivors by saying that is just what you have to do.

OP posts:
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