to think it is acceptable to smack someone if they touch your body, even if they have dementia?

[haleey]

I visit my grandad in a care home regularly and sometimes male residents will touch women unexpectedly. I’ve had my waist touched, boobs grabbed and one man touched my privates while smiling at me. I know they are ill and confused, but honestly I think people act as though women are supposed to just tolerate it because “they can’t help it”.

Part of this for me is that I have been assaulted before, so my reflex when someone suddenly touches me unexpectedly is to hit out before I even properly think. It is an automatic panic response.

Recently one resident suddenly grabbed me and I instinctively smacked his hand away. One of the staff immediately told me off and said “he can’t help it”. I understand that dementia affects behaviour and judgement, but I found it upsetting that the focus instantly became about him rather than acknowledging that I had just been touched without consent and panicked.

I’m not talking about beating vulnerable elderly people or deliberately hurting confused residents. But I also don’t think women should be expected to quietly accept unwanted touching because the person is elderly or cognitively impaired.

You’re fine op. Don’t worry about it!

This is such a sad thread. Unfortunately with dementia sexual inhibitions diminish. I can't believe so many of you believe the OPs response is justified. I pray none of you do or ever will work with a person at risk.

I think swatting a hand to get it off your body is justified. She didn't turn round and lamp the guy.

I don't really understand how you think a reflexive action is something that unless you've trained yourself out of - because you work with patients of this nature maybe - you can just, not do?

Don't worry though, I don't work with any persons at risk. I myself have been as you described it, a person at risk, and being unexpectedly intimately touched might have been catastrophic for me.

I'm sure we all understand that people with dementia may suffer from sexual disinhibtion. That doesn't mean we are all trained to react professionally if we are unexpectedly assaulted by an elderly man, and a slap on the offending hand to make the person withdraw, is not a reaction that will cause any damage to the recipient.

I can see why OP didn't report the first time, perhaps thinking it a one-off. And if the other incidents happened months apart, I can see why (in light of the staff's lack of reaction) she may not have thought to take it further until now. But it seems OP has since spoken to the manager and reported the issue appropriately, and hopefully it will be resolved in a way that protects both (other) residents and visitors.

Residents should not be allowed in a position where they can sexually assault anyone.

Also, I very much doubt that people who, due to trauma, may react instinctively to a sexual violation by hitting out at the thing (hand) making contact, would choose to work with people who are likely to do that. It wouldn't make much sense on any level. So I think your rather performative prayers are unnecessary.

And I can’t believe that some such as you believe that swatting the hand away of someone who is sexually assaulting you is wrong. How is it in an meaningful way harmful to the person doing it?

Besides, what is she meant to do, stand there calmly as he fondles he breast and say “excuse me, I’m sorry to ask but please could you refrain from doing that.”

And what if he carries on? Continue standing there, not daring to push him away in case someone might be deem this to be assault, and argue that there was a more “peaceful” way of negotiating an end to the assault that involved no action that could possibly cause any physical discomfort to the man, and that his dementia means that you lose all rights to defend yourself from unwanted sexual contact?

Who would work in a care home knowing there are warped people out there who would criminalise you for taking very mild actions to defend yourself from assault.

"And what if he carries on? Continue standing there,"

Ummm... step back a couple of steps? It's not freaking rocket science.
Honestly, I despair at the cognitive abilities of some posters on MN.

Men who do this are generally mobile! So if he moves forward a couple of steps as you retreat a couple of steps? Because moving a couple of steps backwards always stops someone who is sexually assaulting you in their tracks!

I can guarantee you that you will be able to move faster than an elderly dementia resident.

And God forbid you’d swipe/swat or smack his hand away if a fully grown man is sexually assaulting a woman anyway because we have moved back to the time when women social enforcers (wouldn’t it be great if it actually turned out that they were always only ever a very loud but incredibly vocal minority) strongly enforce via shaming and moralising that it is the duty of women to tolerate “silently” and dutifully any unwanted sexual behaviour she experiences.

I don’t think anyone is saying you should tolerate this
what the issue is how you deal with it

the problem is using words like swat and smack are very subjective they cover everything from a aggressive light touch to guide the hand away to a full on hard aggressive slap
its one of those you had to be there which the member of staff who told OP off was
I don’t want this to come across as as victim blaming but if you go into an environment where your aware of this issue keep your distance and be prepared for with your response
educate yourself about it ask any careers it’s
part of the disease caused by physical damage to the parts of the brain that regulate inhibitions, impulse control, and judgment

Yes and the OP was incredibly clear in her post that she responded reflexively, so without intent.

Of course the person with dementia has no responsibility given the disease but a reflex swipe/smack or swat is still an appropriate action for a woman who is being sexually assaulted to take.

This thread shows that those who say anyone can be a carer, are wrong.

She was also incredibly clear that she intends to do again so IF it ever happens again .

Who ever said that anyone could be a carer? I could never be a carer. I saw what carers did in my MIL’s nursing home, incredible amazing people and then I saw people like my sister in law berate them day after day on the phone because they could never meet her vaulted and exacting standards she had idealised for other people to live by. She didn’t even live in country so she just imposed these standards onto others, she didn’t live them. We were the ones in and out visiting the nursing home and visiting MIL and seeing how difficult the situation was on the ground. The OP is the one in and out of the nursing home visiting, others are opining on her not reaching their exacting standards.

We dropped the carers in chocolates and presents when MIL died because they were simply fantastic people. SIL wrote a letter of complaint to the nursing home.

There are plenty of comments on threads along the lines those without jobs should go and be carers a or anyone can be a carer because it is not a skilled role. There are a fair few people on this thread who have shown they simply don't have the mindset for it.

In that case, they should also report the sexual assault of the OP as a visitor to their care home - and they should provide supervision of the residents with wandering hands.

You say you also have PTSD from sexual assault so surely you understand that someone may not be able to step back a few steps?

Not everybody has dementia at the care home.

I think she is referring to the person who has shown uninhibited behaviour towards you. This person has dementia.

I asked earlier, when you were dx with PTSD, did you have therapy?
You must face challenges every day, not just in the care home - someone brushing up against you by accident in the supermarket or public transport.

While I sympathise with you as I have been previously sexually assaulted too. If I reacted by smacking disabled residents I would be making sure I wasn’t near any of them. Can you not stay in your grandads room? I visit different care homes numerous times a week and this has maybe happened once and I stepped out the way and the staff redirected them. Swatting a hand a way is different from smacking though. How hard are you smacking them? If the carers have reacted to you doing it, it suggests that you have smacked in a way they wouldn’t and these people are dealing with they behaviours daily

Hence the people who keep saying step back, move out of the way, change your behaviour.

No, I honestly don't understand why someone couldn't take a step back.

It's literally in your thread title 🙄