Mums will always be the default parent (except in a few extenuating circumstances) and to try and change that is a detriment to mums, dads and babies.

[StripesOnADonkey]

Aibu to think that no amount of legislation or social conditioning can change the fact that we are mammals and the mother gets pregnant and gives birth to young, which she then feeds from her body. Mums are the default parent and that is not a bad thing, it’s how it should be.

A dad’s role imo (in the early days mostly) is to support the mum and the family unit together. When the mum is supported, she can be a better mother and she supports the dad back when he needs it. And they both support the children in their own ways. (Obviously if individuals vary from this, as long as everyone is supported and happy then that’s their business, I’m talking societal wise)

I believe if we achieve what some people believe to be the key to equality, ie making parenting equal, this will be detrimental to children and mothers especially.

If mum and dad are 100% equal in parenting (or that is the supposed goal) then why can’t men have equal say in abortion? Or equal say in how mums give birth? Rights to be in the birthing room?

If mum and dad are 100% equal in parenting and are not together on birth, why can’t dad have overnights from day 1? If the goal is for both to be default parent, then why would it be considered cruel to take a newborn from the mother and give to the dad overnight?

If mum and dad are 100% equal in parenting then it’s also up to the dad how baby is fed and if he wants to give baby a bottle of formula even though mum wants to breastfeed, then that is his right.

This imo leads us to be constantly working against our instincts and is part of the reason why the current system we now have is not working (both parents HAVING to go to work and putting their now 9mo in childcare)

Mothers are torn between feeling the desire to be there for their young children and financially being pushed back into work.

However returning to the “traditional” model is not necessarily great for women and leaves a woman so vulnerable financially.

And yes obviously I’m aware that many women WANT to return to work, very soon, but they are not the majority.

This also does not mean that I think we should not take steps to create fairness where possible and strive for equality between men and women. However I do not think that pretending we can equalise the deeply evolved differences in being a mum and being a dad will work. Because it’s inherently different.

How on earth do we begin to solve this?

The only thing I know is that the goal of creating parenting 50/50 is unwise and will never work.

What are your thoughts? What could work that protects female equality and also the wellbeing of children and families as a whole?

It’s a bit rambling I’m afraid, writing is not my forte, just wanted to see if anyone else agrees with my long winded thoughts or had any insights!

You are approaching it as if it’s 2 competing individuals, not 2 people deciding on what’s best for their baby.

Perhaps, but do the babies of two parents who don’t get on or perhaps those with parents where the dad is antagonistic not get to be thought about? There are lots of posts on here about dads wanting overnights with newborns or young children.

If mum and dad are 100% equal in parenting then why can’t men have equal say in abortion

Because that’s not parenting, that’s a medical decision about the woman’s body.

Or equal say in how mums give birth

As above.

You sound very confused. I’m a ‘mammal’, sure, but I’ve evolved a large brain, language and a PhD and a career. And DH doing his fair share of the parenting pretty much since birth doesn’t give him any rights over an organism which my body temporarily hosted before its birth as a separate individual.

My work is fully as important as my parenting, as it is for DH. My work has never involved ‘struggling’ against my instincts,

Very little is ‘inherently different’. If it were, we wouldn’t know until we had reared children without any form of gendered socialisation.

Breastfeeding and pregnancy involves a woman's body so of course she should get the final say over if she breastfeeds at all or when she stops breastfeeding and of course she gets the final say over abortion for the same reason as she is the one who would have to be pregnant.

I do believe that overall, parenting should be more equal and would benefit society as a whole including women and babies. I certainly don't think a woman as the default parent benefits women.

What about breastfeeding/overnights for newborns?

Sigh.

Second 'traditional roles for women' thread started by first time OP this evening.

Something's in the water.

Beyond pregnancy and breastfeeding, men can be as equally good and present parents. How about giving families that choice and freeing them from societal stereotypes?

I don’t think anyone (apart from some weird “fathers for justice” types) thinks that because mothers and fathers should be equal parents, therefore fathers should get to decide whether a child is breastfed.

I don’t understand why you are acting like it’s all or nothing, totally equal say in everything or totally traditional, with no nuance at all.

I’m not in favour of chaining women back in the kitchen.

im wondering what solutions there could be to protecting women’s equality whilst balancing our biological reality of being the sex that bears children.

the current system is not working and just writing my question off does nothing.

I fully get where you are coming from. I feel like in most healthy relationships mum is the default parent and dad is a massive support. My husband was my biggest support when I had our first son and has been ever since, every decision I made regarding our child he fully supports since I’m mum. He will give his opinion and he’s super involved in our sons everyday, however, he thinks mums know what is best for their children and he trusts me to know what’s in our sons best interest.
Whilst I’ve been pregnant with our second and very sick, he has picked up all of the slack.

I think people are too focused on themselves these days, what’s fair and equal etc instead of what’s best for their wonderful baby/child that they’ve created. And when the relationships are non traditional/break down etc we see more problems and ultimately it’s the children who suffer.

I feel like women’s pensions should never be affected from taking time off to raise the next generation. I also feel that we need better maternity leave (well at least better job protection). The UK doesn’t support families.

My DD is 4 and she would benefit greatly from her Dad taking on more of the mental load and doing an equal share of the parenting. It would improve their bond no end if he had to organise and take her on play dates or doctors appts or just take more of an interest in her life in general. He’s not a terrible parent by any means, but if we shared the mental load equally then it would benefit myself and my daughter greatly.

I’m taking things to the logical conclusion. If men and women are considered 100% equal in parenting, why shouldn’t men have equal visitation rights from birth. I’ve seen plenty of men on here arguing for it.

This is mainly nonsense
I have 3 DC , ok I carried them and gave birth to them and breastfed them but my DH and I share everything else equally and my hope my Dc (male and female) do likewise
Nothing will change for women until this becomes the norm

It’s working for me and the women I know

It works for me. You don't speak for all women.

Just do what you think is right for your child. You’re trying to conflate a lot of different things.

My husband and I have (I would say), a complete 50/50 approach. Children ask for us both equally. I can’t think of anything one does that the other doesn’t. There isn’t a default parent. We live our life, it’s easy, stress free and we are all really happy. I wouldn’t change a thing.

A dad’s role imo (in the early days mostly) is to support the mum and the family unit together.

Yes, in the early days when female biology is front and centre to what is needed - protecting a woman in labour and recovering , enabling a mother to breastfeed the baby etc. No need whatsoever for motherhood to be markedly different from fatherhood once a child is weaned. Unless the family choose to differentiate sex roles, which is of course their choice.

If mum and dad are 100% equal in parenting (or that is the supposed goal) then why can’t men have equal say in abortion?
Because during pregnancy and birth parenting is not the same. Equality does not mean that a man gets equal control over a woman's body. If he wants equal rights over abortion, let him have equal rights to get pregnant and give birth to a child,,,oh...wait.... It is a woman's final prerogative as to what happens in HER body. Just as women are vulnerable to some men making it their prerogative to impregnate a woman and bugger off.

Women's and men's roles in the biology are not the same.

That is not the same as saying they cannot be equal as parents at differnt stages of life.

This is all pretty obvious really.

Because men can’t breastfeed which is usually the main reason they aren’t given those access rights (eg overnight) from day 1.

Are you suggesting babies should not be breastfed just so that dad can have access?

glad it works for you, it doesn’t for many. I’m sure lots of women found the traditional system worked for them. Doesn’t mean it was the best system.

isn’t there anything that would improve it?

You’re also aware that there are studies that show where babies are removed from their mother in the early days, where she is all they have “known” for 9 months, it causes trauma? It’s one of the biggest arguments against surrogacy.

My husband was 100% 50-50 with our first baby, but that's because I formula fed. With my second I breastfed and that absolutely meant I had to be the default parent... Which has become more equal since she's older, but did kinda force me into the default parent role, seemingly forever...

Not that I would advocate formula feeding over breastfeeding, but there is definitely a difference when a mother is the sole source of food for a baby on who becomes the default parent imo.

No, absolutely not? The opposite.