Mums will always be the default parent (except in a few extenuating circumstances) and to try and change that is a detriment to mums, dads and babies.

[StripesOnADonkey]

Aibu to think that no amount of legislation or social conditioning can change the fact that we are mammals and the mother gets pregnant and gives birth to young, which she then feeds from her body. Mums are the default parent and that is not a bad thing, it’s how it should be.

A dad’s role imo (in the early days mostly) is to support the mum and the family unit together. When the mum is supported, she can be a better mother and she supports the dad back when he needs it. And they both support the children in their own ways. (Obviously if individuals vary from this, as long as everyone is supported and happy then that’s their business, I’m talking societal wise)

I believe if we achieve what some people believe to be the key to equality, ie making parenting equal, this will be detrimental to children and mothers especially.

If mum and dad are 100% equal in parenting (or that is the supposed goal) then why can’t men have equal say in abortion? Or equal say in how mums give birth? Rights to be in the birthing room?

If mum and dad are 100% equal in parenting and are not together on birth, why can’t dad have overnights from day 1? If the goal is for both to be default parent, then why would it be considered cruel to take a newborn from the mother and give to the dad overnight?

If mum and dad are 100% equal in parenting then it’s also up to the dad how baby is fed and if he wants to give baby a bottle of formula even though mum wants to breastfeed, then that is his right.

This imo leads us to be constantly working against our instincts and is part of the reason why the current system we now have is not working (both parents HAVING to go to work and putting their now 9mo in childcare)

Mothers are torn between feeling the desire to be there for their young children and financially being pushed back into work.

However returning to the “traditional” model is not necessarily great for women and leaves a woman so vulnerable financially.

And yes obviously I’m aware that many women WANT to return to work, very soon, but they are not the majority.

This also does not mean that I think we should not take steps to create fairness where possible and strive for equality between men and women. However I do not think that pretending we can equalise the deeply evolved differences in being a mum and being a dad will work. Because it’s inherently different.

How on earth do we begin to solve this?

The only thing I know is that the goal of creating parenting 50/50 is unwise and will never work.

What are your thoughts? What could work that protects female equality and also the wellbeing of children and families as a whole?

Yes I was just thinking that it's worked for me too so far

I didn’t breastfeed DC2 and DH split the nights with me. I don’t get your point.

Women will always be screwed i think. My personal solution is to advice women not to have kids unless they really really really want that kind of life. Because some do.

@TheBlueKoala If your husband would have said he was happy to sacrifice his career and become the SAHP and you the financial provider, would you have been OK with that?
I think, if they are being honest, the majority of women wouldn't be.
So you can't wholly "blame" men that they don't make this decision.
When I returned to work my husband took a year off part-time to look after our daughter and it was one of the best decisions we ever made as a family.

Also the purpose is essentially: how can we find solutions to improve working mums situations so they aren’t forced back into work at 9m pp which is increasingly common, in a way that works WITH biological norm. Ie mums being the parent that gestates/births/breastfeeds and later is nearly always the default.

ignoring this reality doesn’t help women. Neither does pointing out that some families deviate.

Are you a man, OP? You do know that men are also medically linked to the child by virtue of the child having half their DNA? Men care very well for children and the absence of a woman in a child’s life is no barrier to successful rearing. It’s mostly social conditioning that expects women to be the prime caregiver, but there’s no reason all that needs to be the case.

I think if the woman breastfeeds then or course she becomes the default parent with regards to feeding in the beginning. But other than that there is no reason the father should not be a fair co parent. This whole "medically linked" is ridiculous. My ds has a strong bond with both me and his dad equally. We both share the parental duties well and there is no default parent. Obviously in some households that is not the same depending on the people involved but if the want is there then the women is not required to be the default parent at all.

So you want the mother not to be forced to to back to work at 9m but also not become the default parent.? Surely if the mother or father is not working then they are the default parent by choice

@Justbreathagain Why do you think in the vast, vast majority of cases it is the dad that keeps working and mum the SAHP?

If mum and dad are 100% equal in parenting (or that is the supposed goal) then why can’t men have equal say in abortion? Or equal say in how mums give birth? Rights to be in the birthing room?

Sorry but this is just stupid. Being equal parents does not mean a man suddenly has rights over a womans body and that her consent no longer matters.

By choice. There is absolutely no reason it can't be the other way round. To begin with during maternity the mother needs to breastfeed (if choosing to) and recover (if needed) but apart from that families are making this choice..dad's could go back part time, there are nurseries to be used etc. dad could become sahp. These are all choices being made by the families themselves.

I would say actually, the dads are more likely to earn higher salaries which is why they stay at work. So i don’t think it is a choice for many families really.

Example is that i had to stay at my company rather than move to another one and get a pay rise as many companies have terms that you need to be there for a certain amount of time to get enhanced mat pay, and then have to work there for up to a year afterwards.

Can you explain why it’s ‘logical’?

Bizarre you’ve had so many questions about birth and breastfeeding, long after infant hood. That’s not usual. Regardless, my DH knows everything about his children’s birth and breastfeeding, because he was present, informed and interested at every step.

Probably longer parental leaves and men being more incentivised to take up parental leave. Also workplaces encouraging parental leave for men.

They do a good job of this in some European countries.

Nope I am a mother.

it is not mostly social conditioning, it’s nature. No mammal has males as primary care giver.

im not saying it can’t happen and isn’t sometimes for the best in some instances. This is not the majority though is it.

many men are amazing dads obviously, not my point.

Yeah I agree this is a part of the puzzle. It helps equalise things. But still once that is over I wonder what we can do to help continue this.

is full days of childcare best for 1-2yos? Often one parent goes back part time and that’s usually the mother.

i guess im wondering if there’s a way to enable mums to still be participating in decisions in society whilst being default carer or SAHM. (Obviously as a CHOICE not enforcing)

maybe it’s just not possible.

Unless children are expected to live in the cold and on fresh air, providing for them financially is a big part of taking care of them and obviously a responsibility parents have. Going part time in my case would mean losing the excellent flexibility I currently have which allows me to spend extra quality time with my children.

Women don't have to choose between children or a career, they can absolutely have both.

I am no massive fan of exH but he is and always has been a superb parent, and there’s nothing I did for my DC apart from pregnancy and birth etc that he didn’t or couldn’t do himself. I agree that women shouldn’t be penalised for taking time out of work etc, but the danger of what OP is proposing is that we slide even further into the ‘dads are just babysitters/oh aren’t they hopeless’ bollocks that makes life harder for mothers (and for all good fathers) in the first place.

The breastfeeding reason simply isn't valid after mat leave is up. I extended breastfed all three of mine and still returned to work every time.
One reason (of many) as to why men generally earn more is that women are still seen as the "default parent" by employers.
How can we change this?
One way is by returning to work after mat leave has finished and expecting our husbands to support more with childcare.

Do you think I agree with these points?

my post is saying that these rights are not granted to the father because we see parenting as mother being the default.

i personally believe that mothers and babies belong together and it would be barbaric to force a newborn away from the mother for any reason and I believe it’s abuse to interfere with breastfeeding.

my point is if your end goal is fathers having 100% equal responsibility for children and babies would result in fathers having equal overnight stays from birth and decision making powers on breastfeeding/formula.

What am I proposing?

im more saying this is already happening, (vast vast majority of mums ARE the default parent) how can we promote equality whilst embracing that.

we somehow have to make having children work in the society we live in. Right now it’s just seen by many as an inconvenience and that is to women’s detriment.

instead of working against nature, how can we work with it.

im not really sure how this is controversial, probably I’m not explaining myself well, but people are also making huge leaps on here and assuming I’m against women working or a reform bot 🤣

Most mammals have the young leave the mother much sooner after weaning. We all agree that if a mammal is breastfeeding, mum will be default for that period. For humans though, we can than be equal for the 16-19 years they're not breastfeeding.

Most women with a career, and the father with a career, farm out responsibilities to employees! Nursery or nanny or grandparents. They rarely do it all or have it all - quality time is over used rubbish. It’s dabbling with being a parent whilst others do the grunt work. Working full time, when both parents do it, means others take the strain. That’s ok but at least be honest about it!! Quality time is very part time!

my post is saying that these rights are not granted to the father because we see parenting as mother being the default

No, we afford women bodily autonomy because we understand women are human beings and not male property. You have a VERY misogynistic view on this.

I strongly believe better rights for dads will help relieve pressure on mums.

More paternity leave for them to connect and learn their own way when baby (time off alone with child so they can find their rhythm without mum).

More expectation that men will take extended time off so women are not the only ones who might and therefore be (possibly indirectly/ subconscious ly) discriminated against.

More visibility of good dads to raise the standards and expectations.

And, honestly, helping some mums understand that dad may do things differently but if baby is safe and happy, then that's fine.

Okay 👍 well move along then if my post is so pointless. Perhaps the lack of interest in seeing things from others perspective explains why we don’t have equality.