Mums will always be the default parent (except in a few extenuating circumstances) and to try and change that is a detriment to mums, dads and babies.

[StripesOnADonkey]

Aibu to think that no amount of legislation or social conditioning can change the fact that we are mammals and the mother gets pregnant and gives birth to young, which she then feeds from her body. Mums are the default parent and that is not a bad thing, it’s how it should be.

A dad’s role imo (in the early days mostly) is to support the mum and the family unit together. When the mum is supported, she can be a better mother and she supports the dad back when he needs it. And they both support the children in their own ways. (Obviously if individuals vary from this, as long as everyone is supported and happy then that’s their business, I’m talking societal wise)

I believe if we achieve what some people believe to be the key to equality, ie making parenting equal, this will be detrimental to children and mothers especially.

If mum and dad are 100% equal in parenting (or that is the supposed goal) then why can’t men have equal say in abortion? Or equal say in how mums give birth? Rights to be in the birthing room?

If mum and dad are 100% equal in parenting and are not together on birth, why can’t dad have overnights from day 1? If the goal is for both to be default parent, then why would it be considered cruel to take a newborn from the mother and give to the dad overnight?

If mum and dad are 100% equal in parenting then it’s also up to the dad how baby is fed and if he wants to give baby a bottle of formula even though mum wants to breastfeed, then that is his right.

This imo leads us to be constantly working against our instincts and is part of the reason why the current system we now have is not working (both parents HAVING to go to work and putting their now 9mo in childcare)

Mothers are torn between feeling the desire to be there for their young children and financially being pushed back into work.

However returning to the “traditional” model is not necessarily great for women and leaves a woman so vulnerable financially.

And yes obviously I’m aware that many women WANT to return to work, very soon, but they are not the majority.

This also does not mean that I think we should not take steps to create fairness where possible and strive for equality between men and women. However I do not think that pretending we can equalise the deeply evolved differences in being a mum and being a dad will work. Because it’s inherently different.

How on earth do we begin to solve this?

The only thing I know is that the goal of creating parenting 50/50 is unwise and will never work.

What are your thoughts? What could work that protects female equality and also the wellbeing of children and families as a whole?

50/50 is for the benefit of the parents only. It’s not in the best interests of the child. Kids need a secure home which is their base. Not to be shuttled backwards and forwards between two warring adults.

I’m not sure equality between men and women necessarily has to mean each task is split down the line or completely interchangeable, but more like both parents working as a team and playing to their strengths. So eg if the woman is breastfeeding and taking care of the infant in the early days, the man supports her to do this by doing most of the other things that need doing. It’s very tricky to work it out really and will be different for all couples.

Birth, abortion and breastfeeding are healthcare, not parenting. So that argument doesn’t work.

Our twins are 100% parented by both of us equally. DH took 6 months parental leave to care for them solo. No detriment to any of us, only completely positive outcomes.

Current system is not working?

for who? You?

Surely you can see that no matter how equal parent a man is when the baby arrives, that he doesn't have any say over medical decisions over a woman's body when she is pregnant?

Surely you can see the difference between a newborn needing the comfort of a mother in the 4th trimester, and a toddler who has completely different needs?

I was default parent when my baby was a newborn. I breastfed, took the majority of maternity leave etc. But we gradually worked towards equality and from when they were around 3 I'd say they genuinely didn't have a default parent

I can't understand how anyone thinks this is detrimental to anyone. If they have an accident and one parent is not there they are equally comfortable with the other parent. They are equally happy if either of us get up in the night / have to take them to an appointment / do homework with them / comfort them when they're upset. I don't understand how having two people that love a child and are involved in that child's upbringing, can ever be a bad thing. I work because I like working and if I have to go away its all fine, the same as it is if my husband goes away. I'm not being ripped from the heart of the family by a brutalised capitalist system leaving traumatised children in my wake.

Why does this read like your back tracking on this nonsense pathetic thread you’ve began

The world has changed

not all mums breastfeed.
not all babies have a mum & dad. Some babies have two mums or two dads or sometimes a mum/dad solo
dads can take maternity leave instead of the mum (or whatever the parental situation is)

If anything the world needs to drop the ‘mums are default parent thing’

a lot of relationships don’t work out and so 50/50 parenting should be the normal default.
saying a baby should only be with the mum where a relationship has failed before birth means the father cannot bond or build the same relationship with the baby.

then you add the way in way which in most situations both parents need to work. So there shouldn’t be a default parent if both are working full time.

add the militant mums-netters who believe everything should be 50/50 then there should be no default parenting

If I was a man, I would never agree to have a child in that case.

For as long as men seem to enjoy unprotected vaginal sex as much as they do, you'll find they'll be agreeing until the end of time

To be fair, as a woman, I wouldn't want to have a child in that case either.

If I wanted sole parental responsibility of DC, I'd be a single parent by choice. Making it even easier for men to walk away as they don't even have legal parental responsibility in the first place is an awful idea.

The maintenance should stop that.

I doubt it. Some men don't pay it as it is.

It should be direct debit like an unpaid loan or tax

I can agree with that.

I don't agree that we should be allowing men not to have any legal responsibility for their children, I don't believe that is a positive message for society.

And that’s fine for them. The whole point of feminism was allowing women to have choices in life. I’m happy with the system as it is now. Would I say I’m still “default parent” despite having a PhD and working FT, yeah probably… Only because instinctively my DC reach for me when hurt or sick, as most children would but that’s just biology which I can’t alter. It doesn’t mean the system isn’t working because DC prefer my cuddles to DH’s.

Most women don’t have a choice. They HAVE to return to work when their baby is now 9 months. They both HAVE to have a job.

it’s not my personal situation, I’m lucky enough to be self employed and work part time, I’m NOT against mums working, but many many mums around me are frustrated and stuck.

if feminism is about choice, then what about other women who choose differently to you?

im mentioning biology because I think humans are smart enough to think of more solutions than that. In a way that directly considers mums being the default parent in MOST cases.

everyone is offended by the reality apparently. Or wants to talk about the outliers. Not the vast majority of mums who ARE the default parent, and always will be.

This thread is disappointing, but maybe it was my wording 🤷‍♀️ either way everyone seems happy to say they’re fine so who cares.

You’re absolutely bonkers you’ve began this thread and it makes no sense and has no purpose. Your just spouting your opinion

Agree, and I think that’s no bad thing. And this attitude would help many couples be happier.

may there isn’t any way to make the work/childcare division fairer due to the difference in how children are made. I hope that there is though.

Spouting an opinion is the whole point of mumsnet. 🤷‍♀️

how is my thread bonkers? Is it so difficult to read someone else’s thoughts? I admit it’s not the best writing, I’m dyslexic but would you rather I got ai to write it?

“If mum and dad are 100% equal in parenting (or that is the supposed goal) then why can’t men have equal say in abortion? Or equal say in how mums give birth? Rights to be in the birthing room? “

Because shockingly to you it’s a woman’s body, her life and her mental state most affected by the pregnancy. Her life would change the most her body would change the most it’s not fucking rocket science.

if a woman has been abused/r@ped by the child’s father and escapes or he isn’t particularly nice and she chooses for him not to be there again, her bloody choice if she wants to protect herself and her unborn she can very well do that without judgment.

If mum and dad are 100% equal in parenting and are not together on birth, why can’t dad have overnights from day 1? If the goal is for both to be default parent, then why would it be considered cruel to take a newborn from the mother and give to the dad overnight?
If mum and dad are 100% equal in parenting then it’s also up to the dad how baby is fed and if he wants to give baby a bottle of formula even though mum wants to breastfeed, then that is his right.

You aren’t taking my day old baby away from me for anything. I’ve just carried for 10 months birthed them naturally I am going to want to be there and the baby will need its mother. It’s absolutely absurd.

also no one is telling me or any other woman to breast feed or bottle feed. This would be considered controlling and abusive if he demanded and forced me to do this so it’s entirely my fucking choice in how the baby is fed and what I am most comfortable with.

you’ve lost your marbles. Things are absolutely fine how they are and that is the end to this weird thread. I don’t want my partner to do anything other than support me and our child in the early days and LISTEN!! To me and we can discuss things but equally I wouldn’t be letting an ex partner dictate fucking shit

No you just didn’t need to write it full stop.

I will keep my role as a mother exactly how it is and the father will keep his too where naturally he has as many rights as I do but he has no rights over how I give birth, how I feed or if I give birth at all. He will have rights to help make decisions otherwise regarding nurseries schools what they wear etc etc and that’s how it is.

Why has it been lost that equal doesn't mean the same?

This.

I was #3 on the list (practical because we had a childminder 5 minutes away, DH 10 minutes away and me an hour’s drive away) and who did school call first. I had to get pretty cross about it and ask why they were ignoring the order we’d given them. ‘Oh, we thought Mum would want to know’. Well, yes, eventually, but good grief!

I agree 100% OP. I think that women "who want it all" eg career with long hours and children at the same time are are neglecting their children's needs for their own. Why bother having kids in the first place if you don't want to care for them; taking a break in your career/going pt. One could argue that this would be true for men as well but we are the ones who get the final say in whether having a baby or not. And unless you have a father willing to sacrifice his career (highly unusual) then yes, the responsability stays with the final deciders in giving birth or not.

I only know of one family where the dad is the default parent and he's very hands on and in tune with his children's needs. But he's an exception to the rule. My DH has become more important to my children now when they are teens (boys) but before that I would say that they very much needed their mum (and dh is a good dad- he's just not a mum).