Mums will always be the default parent (except in a few extenuating circumstances) and to try and change that is a detriment to mums, dads and babies.

[StripesOnADonkey]

Aibu to think that no amount of legislation or social conditioning can change the fact that we are mammals and the mother gets pregnant and gives birth to young, which she then feeds from her body. Mums are the default parent and that is not a bad thing, it’s how it should be.

A dad’s role imo (in the early days mostly) is to support the mum and the family unit together. When the mum is supported, she can be a better mother and she supports the dad back when he needs it. And they both support the children in their own ways. (Obviously if individuals vary from this, as long as everyone is supported and happy then that’s their business, I’m talking societal wise)

I believe if we achieve what some people believe to be the key to equality, ie making parenting equal, this will be detrimental to children and mothers especially.

If mum and dad are 100% equal in parenting (or that is the supposed goal) then why can’t men have equal say in abortion? Or equal say in how mums give birth? Rights to be in the birthing room?

If mum and dad are 100% equal in parenting and are not together on birth, why can’t dad have overnights from day 1? If the goal is for both to be default parent, then why would it be considered cruel to take a newborn from the mother and give to the dad overnight?

If mum and dad are 100% equal in parenting then it’s also up to the dad how baby is fed and if he wants to give baby a bottle of formula even though mum wants to breastfeed, then that is his right.

This imo leads us to be constantly working against our instincts and is part of the reason why the current system we now have is not working (both parents HAVING to go to work and putting their now 9mo in childcare)

Mothers are torn between feeling the desire to be there for their young children and financially being pushed back into work.

However returning to the “traditional” model is not necessarily great for women and leaves a woman so vulnerable financially.

And yes obviously I’m aware that many women WANT to return to work, very soon, but they are not the majority.

This also does not mean that I think we should not take steps to create fairness where possible and strive for equality between men and women. However I do not think that pretending we can equalise the deeply evolved differences in being a mum and being a dad will work. Because it’s inherently different.

How on earth do we begin to solve this?

The only thing I know is that the goal of creating parenting 50/50 is unwise and will never work.

What are your thoughts? What could work that protects female equality and also the wellbeing of children and families as a whole?

I thought men could take paternity leave for as much as they wanted? You just can’t both be off??

Well these days we know what is the cause... LGTBQQIA++ etc. 😑

I’m sure in many ways overnight stays from birth would be wonderful for a new mum to actually get some sleep and recover from pregnancy and birth, and any complications. Although, I the majority of parents are still together in the post partum period, and many new Dad’s do not even do the wake ups when the baby is formula fed. New mum’s if breastfeeding would still need to be awake to pump, and the baby may not do so well long term breastfeeding if a bottle is introduced so early.

I’m sure I’ve read that babies need to develop a bond with a main care giver, that tends to be mum in the early months, whether biological or adopted. So maybe it is in the baby’s best interest to have one default parent. In the US they tend extremely short maternity leaves, meaning a lot of Mum’s either don’t return to work and are reliant on their DH’s wage, or they return to work and their very young baby spends many hours with a babysitter or daycare.

I don’t think I said all, but maybe I did by mistake.

I think probably every mother I know is the default parent though. And vast majority are happy with that. What they are not happy about is if their partner doesn’t contribute adequately or with their workplace/childcare situation.

so I think it’s a significant enough problem to try and solve in a way that allows mothers to continue to be default parent.

I agree more paternity leave is a good idea. I find myself wondering if women who take time off work to have children were seen as gaining valuable skills, instead of just being “out of work” then they could return to jobs after 3/5/10 years and still have lots of their working life left to progress. And have those valuable years with their children. (Not necessarily the same job). Or maybe a tax incentive for husbands to put their wages into a joint account to reduce financial abuse for SAHMs.

everyone is quick to jump on me, but no one wants to talk about other ideas.

I'm not and I wouldn't be happy if I was. In fact, I made it clear to DH that if he expected me to be the default parent then I wouldn't be willing to have DC at all.

I would focus on more leave for dads. I liked pp's suggestion of up to a year after mum takes her maternity leave. Use it or lose it.

I can get my head OPs positing the ideas of mums being the default parent. I have lived, am living across 5 generations of women in that role: my grandmother, my mum, me and my daughter and now my DGD (what are we teaching her?)

We, my predominantly female family, have all experienced, not totally but experientially, single parenthood. We are strong, successful women, our children are productive and contributing adults, married or not, some in relationships, some single parenting.

I do not exceptionally advocate this, because I do believe that the best model is / would,
be 2 parents. But I have to live in the world that is.

There are great 2 parent families out there,
there are two parent families out there, where mums carries the load, despite outside appearances - just read an average thread on here, which is what I believe OP is articulating. There are also wonderful single parent families out there. I was one.

But I do see, as a result of being on MN, that
millennials and further generations are not willing to accept the default and maybe / hopefully will force the evolutionary change, that shifts fathers into the role of non conditional/ non-
compartmentalised parenting. And I sincerely hope it comes to pass.

you must see that you are in the vast minority.

I personally am pretty happy with my own situation, but I can see that most people around me are not and are struggling with their work/childcare situation.

often they want to return to work but not when their children are so young.

I'm not sure it is that unusual now, especially with how more women are likely to have successful careers these days and not want to give them up. Are some women happy to be the default parent? Of course but there will also be women out there who aren't happy about it at all.

There are posters saying they are getting PMs saying vote Reform in Wigan and I've seen three or four threads in the last ten minutes saying Vote Reform.

I think there may be some campaigning to block Burnham going on.

My husband and I have always raised our daughter equally together, including shared parental leave. We also both provide for her financially too which has always been important to us. I would never class me as more "important" because I am mum; both of us matter equally.

You think my post is a political campaign??

im just trying to have a conversation about how we can promote equality without ignoring most women’s reality.

Every school I have worked in they do. Usually there is a note on the child's records who to call first in the day.

So far the one I have found hardest was the docs. Really had to fight to get both parents registered with control.

How did we go from sex-based roles to Andy Burnham 😂

Motherhood is a Sex Based Right

Women are the only ones who can get pregnant and give birth, so abortion decision should be hers alone. BUT, after the child is born, there's no reason parenting cannot be 50/50.
Babies can be fed by breast and bottle at the same time, so theres no fair arguement mums are more important and the only one able to feed the baby. Feeding method should always be a joint choice, with dad given the oppertunity to feed baby if he wants to.
Separated parents should get equal overnights from birth, mum can breastfeed if thats her preference on her days/nights (and pump if needed to keep milk supply strong) and dad can bottle feed on his days/nights, even with the pumped breast milk if both parents agree.
He shouldn't be able to tell her no breastfeeding, but she shouldn't be able to tell him breast milk only so you can't have equal time/overnights.

Dads deserve just as much bonding time with a newborn as mums do, thats when the strongest bonds are formed. Its not fair to give mums more rights for newborns and block out willing dads, then want equal parenting later.

I wasn't breast fed for long because of tongue tie causing bad latching, it was easier to see how much i was actually eating to bottle feed, so my parents did care for me 50/50 outside of dads work hours, sharing all night feeds, nappy changes etc. After he was made redundant when i was a toddler, mum went back to work and he was the stay at home parent with me and my older sister for a few years til i was in full time school and he went back to work too. I distinctly remember he was a better bum wiper before i could reliably do it myself. He was by far the more patient parent, the one i felt closer to and was my first choice every time for any issue i was having. He's the one who gave up work to become my carer at 16 when i was struggling with my MH. Sadly mum died when i was 20, and he's the one who has gotten me through life, roles reversed if he were the parent i lost, i wouldn't be here today. It isn't that my mum wasn't a good or loving parent, she just didn't cope as well as my dad with the support i needed.

As such i will always advocate for good, willing dads to have the rights to parent equally from birth.

Most women's reality is frankly a bit shit, mostly because we are often expected to be the default parent. Equality in parenting (which I thankfully have) is a key way of improving women's lives.

I think that some mums want to be the default parent because they perhaps want to give up work and they feel it gives them a valid reason to do so?

@Babyboomtastic But with that comes equality in terms of going out work I'm guessing?

Your breastmilk will often dry up if you spend overnights away from the baby, even with pumping! You definitely need to be constantly breastfeeding in the early days to establish supply - so a 50/50 split from birth would most likely mean the mum won't be able to continue breastfeeding. Yes it might be possible for some babies - but most you can't even introduce a bottle before six weeks or they'd reject the breast...

Fundamentally disagree that a newborn should have to be away from their mum overnight. I never breastfed. I still maintain that newborns need their mum. Fourth trimester and all that. Don’t care how “unprogressive” this makes me, you won’t persuade me that it doesn’t matter when they are that tiny and helpless.

No decent man would dream of taking a newborn away from their mother overnight.

Who on earth is suggesting we leave newborns overnight

A direct quote from a post above:

Separated parents should get equal overnights from birth, mum can breastfeed if thats her preference on her days/nights (and pump if needed to keep milk supply strong) and dad can bottle feed on his days/nights, even with the pumped breast milk if both parents agree.
He shouldn't be able to tell her no breastfeeding, but she shouldn't be able to tell him breast milk only so you can't have equal time/overnights

Dads deserve just as much bonding time with a newborn as mums do, thats when the strongest bonds are formed. It’s not fair to give mums more rights for newborns and block out willing dads, then want equal parenting later.

This is so absurd i wonder if it’s OP doing the reductio ad absurdam of what she seems to think the alternative to women being always and forever default parent is.

They only want 50/50 rights so they don't have to pay any maintenance.

It should be that when a child is born, they are automatically under the mother's custody. If the father leaves or is kicked out, then he pays maintenance, does not receive custody!

Outside of extreme circumstances of course.