Mums will always be the default parent (except in a few extenuating circumstances) and to try and change that is a detriment to mums, dads and babies.

[StripesOnADonkey]

Aibu to think that no amount of legislation or social conditioning can change the fact that we are mammals and the mother gets pregnant and gives birth to young, which she then feeds from her body. Mums are the default parent and that is not a bad thing, it’s how it should be.

A dad’s role imo (in the early days mostly) is to support the mum and the family unit together. When the mum is supported, she can be a better mother and she supports the dad back when he needs it. And they both support the children in their own ways. (Obviously if individuals vary from this, as long as everyone is supported and happy then that’s their business, I’m talking societal wise)

I believe if we achieve what some people believe to be the key to equality, ie making parenting equal, this will be detrimental to children and mothers especially.

If mum and dad are 100% equal in parenting (or that is the supposed goal) then why can’t men have equal say in abortion? Or equal say in how mums give birth? Rights to be in the birthing room?

If mum and dad are 100% equal in parenting and are not together on birth, why can’t dad have overnights from day 1? If the goal is for both to be default parent, then why would it be considered cruel to take a newborn from the mother and give to the dad overnight?

If mum and dad are 100% equal in parenting then it’s also up to the dad how baby is fed and if he wants to give baby a bottle of formula even though mum wants to breastfeed, then that is his right.

This imo leads us to be constantly working against our instincts and is part of the reason why the current system we now have is not working (both parents HAVING to go to work and putting their now 9mo in childcare)

Mothers are torn between feeling the desire to be there for their young children and financially being pushed back into work.

However returning to the “traditional” model is not necessarily great for women and leaves a woman so vulnerable financially.

And yes obviously I’m aware that many women WANT to return to work, very soon, but they are not the majority.

This also does not mean that I think we should not take steps to create fairness where possible and strive for equality between men and women. However I do not think that pretending we can equalise the deeply evolved differences in being a mum and being a dad will work. Because it’s inherently different.

How on earth do we begin to solve this?

The only thing I know is that the goal of creating parenting 50/50 is unwise and will never work.

What are your thoughts? What could work that protects female equality and also the wellbeing of children and families as a whole?

A year of maternity leave followed by a year of paternity leave is my utopian dream. More realistically encouraging men and their employers to consider part time, flexitime, parental leave etc as just as important for men to use as for women once children are a little older. We can both support women and babies in a way that respects the biology of birth and breastfeeding and also strive to reduce the impact on women’s autonomy and careers that that has.

And if the mother hasn’t been pregnant and if neither parent had a biological link to the child?

Fascism

This

This is something that could work for a lot of families! A lot of employers would be against it though, and I have to wonder if it would be practical in some careers. Definitely could in many though!

It seems that biology affects father-child relationship too

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20260417-fatherhood-how-the-male-brain-and-body-prepare-for-childcare

There is nothing in human evolution that stops a mum and dads phone number going on the school contact list .. and maybe just maybe just maybe call the dad first when the child is sick ...

I’m sorry, what?! Wondering how we can achieve equality whilst respecting biological reality of the uneven split of parenting is fascism now?

What careers wouldn’t that work for? As far as I know all careers are available to women, and a woman would get up to a years maternity leave, so why wouldn’t a man be able to get a years paternity?

A lot of employers were against employing women of child bearing age - fortunately the law says they can’t discriminate.

Your argument may hold true for the first year (and that's debatable) but once breastfed babies are weaned there's nothing to stop Mums and Dads playing an equal role in their children's lives. Beyond weaning being the default parent is less about the child relying on the mother for survival (because she has a womb, a placenta and breast milk), and more about doing all the life admin, being the person who is called when the child becomes sick in school/childcare, remembering who needs to be where and making sure they get there, buying clothes, booking appointments and taking kids to them. All that stuff can and should be split equally.

division of labour should always be considered in families. I’m most the mum is the one in charge of the children. As long as the parents split up other labour that needs doing I don’t think this is a problem necessarily.

the problem is a mothers biology means they are medically linked at birth. As the child grows then it’s only logical for the mother to still continue to have this responsibility. I still have young children, in so many appointments they ask about the birth and breastfeeding, even though they are well past that now. No it doesn’t mean that dad shouldn’t be involved, and pick sick children up from school and be fully informed about their children’s health, but I can see how it happens to so many that the mum becomes default.

“As the child grows then it’s only logical for the mother to still continue to have this responsibility.“ - but this is not ‘only logical’, it’s a complete non sequitur. We can and do make choices about how that responsibility is shared within families and society.

Yes, I agree that life admin should be divided up between parents. But mum being the default carer doesn’t switch off when weaned. Formula fed babies still have an equal strong bond with mum as breastfed.

I think a lot of women actively want and choose to be the default, primary carer for their babies. The low uptake in shared parental leave is testament to that.

I loved being the primary parent. My husband would have to have wrestled my maternity leave out of my cold, dead hands. Work is just work. I have a career that’s very important to me but it doesn’t touch the importance of caring for my children even now they are getting older.

Self employed people where they own their own businesses but don’t have employees for example. Women get maternity pay but you don’t get a job to come back to if you ditch it for 9 months!

I think this is true and a lot of people don’t want to acknowledge that.

one of the reasons why I’m wondering how we could protect women financially and allow them this choice.

as currently it’s either:

1. both parents work and use childcare. Both have a wage. A woman has her own money, but her child is not with her.
2. one parent works and the other looks after the child (nearly always the mum). The child is with the mum but the mum is financially dependent on a man. This can be risky.

then how can they have overnight access as you’ve suggested in your earlier posts?

you do understand that “default parent” is more than just feeding a baby right?

it’s changing nappies, soothing them, getting up in the night.

beyond baby years it’s doing equal childcare, being on the other end of the phone when school rings up, sharing drop offs and pickups, sharing Dr, dentist, other routine medical appointments? All the things that default to the mother, even when she works full time / same hours as the father.

I mean I could go on but I can’t believe someone would need this explained to them.

Saying it doesn't work for some women is one thing, you seemed to be claiming it as fact that it doesn't work for any women which clearly isn't true.

I would give fathers a much better paternity leave than just 2 weeks. I don't believe that is good for anyone.

If it’s practical for a woman to take maternity leave why would it not be practical for a man to take paternity leave?

if mums and dads are 100% equals in parenting (ie mums are not the default) then surely it’s reasonable for dads to have overnight stays from birth. (many people think that 100% equal parenting is the goal)

I personally do not think it’s reasonable as I believe mums should be the default in most situations. Mum and baby are linked medically.

as children grow up, obviously the division of labour shifts. I think families should try and make things fair. If mum is doing all the family admin and organising then dad does other things.

im also not saying this has to be every family. But this is generally what happens in most families. And I don’t think that will change anytime soon.

My DH didn’t take any paternity leave when our 3 DC were born, simply because with my drop in pay, we couldn’t afford for him to drop to statutory paternity pay, which is what his employer would have paid. He took 1 week annual leave with DC1 and DC2, had 2 days off for DC3 and used AL a month later when I would have been on my own with all 3 as no school or nursery due to school holidays.

It’s not practical for workplaces though is it, it’s seen as necessary for mums and babies. (Yes I agree with maternity leave, but I’m not sure how essentially doubling the time off work will be practical)

It would be beneficial for women in the workplace too. If fathers also take around a year off, women will experience less sexism in the workplace due to the fact they are likely to take maternity leave and men currently aren't entitled to long leave after their baby is born.

It would also mean less nursery time since nursery is the devil for under 2's according to some people.

I agree about the working but what I envisage is parents both working part time and sharing childcare

I dont think the women has to “pay back support” she’s already supporting the father by birthing the child

I don’t like the idea of two men in a partnership taking a new born baby from its mother - depriving it of the smell and givens of a female body and breasts and the body from which it came - just wrong imv and is a trauma

and yes people have babies in all
aorta of ways but the above is a step too far for me

I agree