Mums will always be the default parent (except in a few extenuating circumstances) and to try and change that is a detriment to mums, dads and babies.

[StripesOnADonkey]

Aibu to think that no amount of legislation or social conditioning can change the fact that we are mammals and the mother gets pregnant and gives birth to young, which she then feeds from her body. Mums are the default parent and that is not a bad thing, it’s how it should be.

A dad’s role imo (in the early days mostly) is to support the mum and the family unit together. When the mum is supported, she can be a better mother and she supports the dad back when he needs it. And they both support the children in their own ways. (Obviously if individuals vary from this, as long as everyone is supported and happy then that’s their business, I’m talking societal wise)

I believe if we achieve what some people believe to be the key to equality, ie making parenting equal, this will be detrimental to children and mothers especially.

If mum and dad are 100% equal in parenting (or that is the supposed goal) then why can’t men have equal say in abortion? Or equal say in how mums give birth? Rights to be in the birthing room?

If mum and dad are 100% equal in parenting and are not together on birth, why can’t dad have overnights from day 1? If the goal is for both to be default parent, then why would it be considered cruel to take a newborn from the mother and give to the dad overnight?

If mum and dad are 100% equal in parenting then it’s also up to the dad how baby is fed and if he wants to give baby a bottle of formula even though mum wants to breastfeed, then that is his right.

This imo leads us to be constantly working against our instincts and is part of the reason why the current system we now have is not working (both parents HAVING to go to work and putting their now 9mo in childcare)

Mothers are torn between feeling the desire to be there for their young children and financially being pushed back into work.

However returning to the “traditional” model is not necessarily great for women and leaves a woman so vulnerable financially.

And yes obviously I’m aware that many women WANT to return to work, very soon, but they are not the majority.

This also does not mean that I think we should not take steps to create fairness where possible and strive for equality between men and women. However I do not think that pretending we can equalise the deeply evolved differences in being a mum and being a dad will work. Because it’s inherently different.

How on earth do we begin to solve this?

The only thing I know is that the goal of creating parenting 50/50 is unwise and will never work.

What are your thoughts? What could work that protects female equality and also the wellbeing of children and families as a whole?

thats not what I’m saying at all.

agree.

Its definitely so common that mums end up doing it all.

that’s why I’d love to see people trying to think of ways that mums can participate in society without just adding more more more to their plate.

are you the mum or dad?

Fair enough if that’s your view, I just don’t think it would work out that way.

It does work out that way, look at the Nordic countries

They still have similar problems to us, it is better so I won’t argue against paternity leave etc. it’s not going to solve everything though.

even if men and women have equal parental leave, women are still the ones who get pregnant, give birth and breastfeed.

YANBU. Great post, makes total sense. I dislike the current narrative around mum’s being ‘the default parent’ as a negative thing- I fully embrace it, and find it deeply rewarding. Like most things in life, you get back what you put in, and having a positive attitude is everything. Far too much whinging nowadays.

I get that, and that was (what I thought was) my opinion until that conversation with mum about my cousin. The reason I remember it so clearly is because I was floored by my own reaction - by the longing it evoked for a different way of being a family.
I recognise it might be fantasy, I'll never get to run that experiment. But I have more time for difference feminism (I think that's the term) and alot more patience with women like my cousin.
I'm also really uncomfortable with things like @JG24 's assertion that "As long as women are the default it will never be as respected So encouraging men to be the primary parent is win win." Why should we accept that something only women do will always be looked down on? Honestly it makes me think that striving to be exactly the same as men is just a cop out. Remember that old second wave adage, women who seek equality with men lack ambition.

actually that might have been Marilyn Monroe 🫡

I don't agree with pp either but then I also don't agree that it should be seen or encouraged in society as something only women do.

100% agree

Apologies I didn't mean to sound like I was agreeing with the mentality that it's only when a man does a job it's respected. I just unfortunately think that it's still a reality
If we look at professions, typically when more women enter a profession the pay goes down as does the respect people have for that role - teaching for example.
There is so much inherent sexism still in society that until men start taking a more equal role in parenting it will always be seen as inferior and SAHP will be seen as having little value

Yes you're right there are enough examples on this thread alone.
I'm still curious about the rigidity there was in my thinking, that belief, or was it more like a subconscious assumption, that we had to be fungible as parents or we were failing / succumbing to patriarchy. So I think @StripesOnADonkey putting the cat among the pigeons with this thread is a good thing. Maybe I just mean that even progressivism can be dogmatic and it might help to think outside the box sometimes, for some families.

Mammals are not genetically designed to fly but we do.

You seem like a person that sees a problem instead of finding a solution

I dunno I mean I breastfed my first and he was so clingy to me , would cry when I left the room etc and I’d breastfeed him often for comfort. While we had such a lovely close bond I don’t think he bonded as much with his dad . My second I was unable to breastfeed for medical reasons and was unwell when he was born . My dh bottle fed him for the first day or 2 while I recovered. They are so close and he squeals with joy and heads towards my dh when he walks into a room. This has deepened since I returned to work because my dh has temporarily effectively become his default parent at the moment for logistical reasons. The thing is I also have a close bond with him but I have to say it’s nice this time that it’s more shared ? I dunno if it is due to the breastfeeding or not , lots of bottle feeding mums are also the default parent for various reasons , but in my opinion it’s definitely a factor. And in my opinion men are well able to be default parents, babies just want to be looked after and loved , they don’t really care that much if you are male or female if they have those things.

That's what DS's teacher did the other day. He was ill so she called his dad to pick him up rather than calling me, which I really appreciated as I work 30 minutes away and OH works right near home usually.

I dunno I mean the abortion things is different because it’s literally the woman’s own body and everyone should be allowed decide what happens to their own body just because men can’t decide this doesn’t mean they can’t be default parents when a baby arrives . As for breastfeeding I think very few men would be demanding a breastfeeding mother give the child a bottle for his sake . And it’s not “cruel” to take a baby from their mother during the night jeez I was only delighted when my dh took the baby at night to have a break. I prefer to be out working and share the parenting and lots and lots of women feel the same way. Then again I grew up in a household where both of my parents had careers and neither of them were the default parent and housework was shared which I guess was unusual in the 80s/90s but I loved my childhood and I am very close to both parents . I don’t live in the uk I’m in Ireland but there are some things here in place , like for example the child allowance always goes to the mother by default in a two parent household of a mother and father.

We do as well, however neither of us are organised enough, so we are often informed by the dentist etc that the other has already booked the dentist etc.

YANBU.

We are mammals, I agree, and I believe that mothers and babies have a connection that babies and their fathers don’t have for those first 0-4 months especially (as a rough figure) and right up until they start becoming more independent at 18 months.

We carry them, we birth them and we breastfeed them (for those who can) and that forms a bond from infant to mother that cant be replicated.

It’s not “cool” to say it these days, but I do think a mother’s role is very different role to a father’s role and that it should be celebrated. It’s not about abolishing equality or women’s rights etc, it’s about recognising the importance of maternal connection and attachment through the eyes of the baby/infant.

As the infant gets older the importance of those maternal and paternal roles obviously balance out but for the first 12 months or so (as as average) I do class mothers as being the primary carers in terms of who the infant naturally veers too, especially at times when they need comfort.

I know 100s of people will post about how their baby/infant loves going to their dad and how good he is at settling him etc etc (which I don’t doubt), but from a biological point of view, I do think babies/infants form a different closeness with their mothers than they do with their fathers (and vice versa).

Haha! We all go together then book the next one when we leave!

You are conflating women’s body autonomy and parenting here.

In our house, I work away during the week as I took a huge promotion, with apartment in another city. I come home at the weekends and occasionally one evening in the week (back in at 7:15pm, leaving at 5am the following morning). My husband is the main parent - cooks every night, gets up early to make our kids a healthy cooked packed lunch, takes them to their clubs, co sleeps with our younger DS who is 10 but just adores his Dad. He does all the mental load - remembering PE days, trip paperwork, when it’s House day or when production costumes etc are due. He is a complete natural at being a parent, and has been since the boys were born.

It hasn’t come so naturally to me, and so I enjoy and get a lot of satisfaction from my work, with my husband’s full support. We adore each other and our boys, and they benefit so much from him being the main parent. My husband works, but his priority is our boys, and always has been.

Oh, and the amount of judgement I get from this is unreal, despite the fact I work with many men who do exactly the same (work away from their families).

Totally disagree