Hand on shoulder

[ThankThink]

Teen Dd takes part in a weekly activity outside of school, which is attended by a wider age range. One of the men attending, has the habit of placing his hand on the young girls shoulder when he speaks with them. So he approaches a girl and while speaking to her places one hand on her shoulder. He does this mostly with 2-3 girls not all of them. The girls are all 15.

AIBU to think this is not ok?

The girls don't like it but no one has yet said anything. I have told her to move away when it happens again but Dd worries about being impolite. I role played with her how to move away. I am so cross about this, not even my extended family would think of touching her casually for no reason.

What would you advise and how do I advise dd?

I think you have given her good advice.

People like this will push unless challenged. Once she (and hopefully the other girls too) move away, he will know he can't get away with it.

Can your daughter talk to the other girls tomake sure they are all planning to move their bodies away from him?

Is there a higher figure they can approach about it?

Good idea for dd to tell the other girls to move away.

Yes there are ways to mention this but as we all know calling someone out in this way has often repercussions. Dd enjoys the hobby and ideally she manages it. She needs to learn to assert her personal space anyway, she is way too polite and accepting of adult authority. I feel rubbish as I would have made it sharply clear that I don't like it even when I was a teenager. My dd is a lot less assertive.

How on earth does a 60 Plus year old man think he can touch very young teenagers in this way. How is this even still a thing in this day and age. Depressing.

Absolutely tell her to move away.
Learning that it is not our (women’s) job to keep men happy is a lesson that it has taken me far too long to learn. I wish I had been helped to learn it as a younger woman

I’d speak directly to him and say you’d noticed him doing it and wanted to make him aware it could make the girls uncomfortable and also make him vulnerable to accusations of impropriety. Either he’s doing it on purpose in which case I’d want him to know it’s been seen, or he’s not aware and he needs to get smarter

Adding that his hand lingers until he is done speaking to them

Speak to him, tell him it's not okay. Say something.

I am not part of this hobby so rarely there. Is it not better to tell the group leader to have a word?

If you are not usually there then ask the group leader to have a word. Don’t leave your daughter to try to deal with this

Definitely speak to the leader. You can say YOU noticed it and asked your daughter about it a d she confirmed her discomfort. Awful behaviour. Creep.

Yes, of course you should tell the group leader. It's outrageous that Mr Lingerer should feel free to stroke young girls.

We had a teacher in school many years ago who we called Fingers Foster (wave to anyone who remembers him) - everyone saw him as a creep.

Yes. Say that she does not like it, but is worried about upsetting feelings. I bet you that he has been told his behaviour is not ok before.

Why this is not being policies already is pretty shocking. Pervy old git.

If your daughter feels uncomfortable saying something you need to step in here and speak to the man or the group leader.

Can't they simply remove his hand? That would show him that they won't put up with it.

Absolutely speak to the group leader. And you need to impress on your daughter that someone else’s comfort in you being polite does not trump her feeling uncomfortable. If she’s feeling uncomfortable, absolutely move away.

She can just say "Mr. X I don't feel comfortable with you placing your hand on my shoulder". She is presumably in a safe place, so she can just say it openly. It will probably shock him but most likely he will stop. Being polite and being able to express her discomfort are not mutually exclusive.

Not many teens would have the confidence to say "Mr X, I don't feel comfortable with you placing your hand on my shoulder" and the sort of girl who would be confident enough wouldn't be the sort of girl he'd touch in the first place.

“Take your hand off my shoulder, Brian” (“You cock!”)

'Did you know you are not allowed to touch people without their consent?' while moving away and giving a very disgusted look. Get all of them to say that and do report him to someone more senior.

If she just deliberately removes his hand then he will either realise what he is doing and stop, or if he puts it back, then you know there is a problem.

”Please don’t touch me”. Polite and no wriggle room for misunderstanding.

“Oh, I’m only being friendly”
”Please don’t touch me, I don’t like it”

And then loudly: “This man keeps touching me and I’ve asked him to stop. Please help”.

Hmm not OK and shame your DD feels she would be the impolite one. It is not impolite to establish touching boundaries.

I have always found a tut tut of the tongue and 'hands off please' or 'I am a hands free zone' usually does the trick without too much drama.

I know this is gross, but when you show your daughter how to move away, make sure she doesn’t just step back. That might allow him to accidentally let his hand slip down to her breast. I know this from a similar experience

I don’t understand why you’re pussyfooting around about a man’s feelings a potential repercussions for your daughter.

this man is unsafe. Any potential repercussions are far better than his fucking sleazy grooming! I’d be straight on the phone to a leader and shouting my mouth about it. It’s a hobby, sure she enjoys it but some hobbies or people at those hobbies are unsafe! Yes it’s a him problem and why should she give up something she enjoys because he’s a pervert. I like cycling but I don’t do it because car driver are arseholes. Similar principle.

That's an awful thought, how can she avoid that?

I don't think she will feel able to tell him to remove his hand.

Why would an older man hold onto a young teenage girl's shoulder and let it linger while he speaks to them? Not all of the girls, mind.

I will tell her to stop smiling at him and if she looks at him to give off assertive, cold vibes. As a teenager I had a don't mess with me death stare, dd needs to learn this.

Any books or movies or anything else that can help her realise about the power difference, the sleaziness and protecting your personal space as a woman?

I had to complete mandatory training at work about sexual harassment. Employers are by law obliged to deal with that. Of course this is a voluntary organisation.

The whole point is that a hand on shoulder often doesn't feel enough to flag or refuse but it is that second guessing that gives the man all the power. I am so disgusted. Maybe dh needs to speak with the leader.