Hand on shoulder

[ThankThink]

Teen Dd takes part in a weekly activity outside of school, which is attended by a wider age range. One of the men attending, has the habit of placing his hand on the young girls shoulder when he speaks with them. So he approaches a girl and while speaking to her places one hand on her shoulder. He does this mostly with 2-3 girls not all of them. The girls are all 15.

AIBU to think this is not ok?

The girls don't like it but no one has yet said anything. I have told her to move away when it happens again but Dd worries about being impolite. I role played with her how to move away. I am so cross about this, not even my extended family would think of touching her casually for no reason.

What would you advise and how do I advise dd?

We will speak to them. But I want dd to learn how to keep creepy men at an arms length. In a few year.s she'll be off to uni or gap year or work and men like the above can be found anywhere.

That's an awful thought, how can she avoid that?
I think if she raises the hand on the same side as that shoulder, so her arm is on the inside of his arm and she just pushes it away from her to the side it will prevent that.

I hope that makes sense. It was hard to describe.

She will learn how to keep cunts at arms length from YOU stepping in here and sticking up for her. Ffs, she came to for help, give it to her.

You need to report him to the DSL for the group. And soon. He’s grooming them!

Why are you being so passive, she is a child and you are the parent, it doesn’t need your DH to manage it. Get on the phone to the leader now. Any group with adults and children will have some sort of safeguarding policy. The leader needs to deal with this asap. If they don’t, or if they have noticed and not dealt with it already then they are allowing sexual harassment to continue. He may be clueless but I highly doubt it.
I do think you need to support your daughter and friends, all doing the same thing, to shrug his hand off and move away as soon as he does it, or move away if he even comes near them. She needs to be supported to know that her discomfort is important and telling her he is not safe, and she should not be polite in this scenario. He probably gets off on them being uncomfortable.

Thank you, I'd like it to make sense, but it doesn't completely.

What is DSL?

Ask him to stop touching your daughter his actions are not acceptable and Complain to whoever runs group by email stating you have asked him to stop but you want them to be aware what you have spoken to him about. Make other parents aware of it.

DSL - Designated Safeguard Lead, whoever is overseeing risk assessment etc.

Designated safeguarding lead. All organizations with young people will have a safeguarding person to report to. You can also show your DD the most recent series of Waterloo Road, where a football coach grooms a teenage girl.

27% have voted that IABU to think this is not ok.

Why?

Agree with many other others here, she’s come to you for help, FFS give it to her. The way she will learn is by you modelling strong forthright & assertive behaviour. This is not the time to be pussyfooting around worrying about offending at best, a creep but at worst, an unashamed groomer.
Come on OP pull your big girl pants up here and show her how to loudly and publicly put a stop to it before anything worse happens.

Bend down to scratch leg- step back- stand up.

It’s non confrontational (for her benefit, not his!), and if they all start to do it, he will get the message. They will need to agree on it as a strategy though- consistency is key to him realising a conversation has been had about him.

That's true, my daughter just turned 13 and would argue with even teachers (politely), and is quite secure to express her views. I guess I am just lucky she is not afraid to speak her mind. Still I think the OP needs to encourage her daughter to speak up...at 15 she should be able to.

Is it not strange also that the leader and the other adults don't tell this guy to cut it out? They must all be aware.

I can have a word with the leader. But I also want dd to own her space and know what body language helps with that. When I asked her what she did when he placed put his hand on her shoulder, she said she looked down. I have told her not to look down as that make her come across as powerless (and maybe he likes that) and to move away. But I realise now that moving away could land his hand elsewhere.

I just don't know how we got here, I would have naturally moved away at her age if some old bloke had placed his hand on my shoulder but I was more aware of such things. If it's not grooming or whatever it must be a power trip. I swear not even dd's granddad would do that.

Good on your dd, how did you teach her confidence like that? 🙏

Do you think she would be comfortable enough to take direct action without actually having to say anything at all?

The moment he puts his hand on her shoulder, she turns her head to look directly at his hand and does not speak a further word until it’s removed. It’s then completely obvious to him what he is doing and the only resolve she needs is to remain staring at it and not speaking.

I just have chats here and then with her, whenever a situation arises that can be a teaching moment, I don't really plan it. I think as I grew older I wish I would have been more secure myself, so always have chats with her about being able to advocate for herself, and to say she doesn't have to be rude to set boundaries. Always tell her she needs to trust her gut, remove herself from uncomfortable situations, and not be scared to make a scene if needed. I explain to her that it's not her job to make others feel comfortable and she is not responsible for anyone's moods (including her dad or myself). I think it's definitely not easy but IMO is a great skill to have, potentially life saving.

I think you have read the poll wrong or everyone has. Everyone has stated that this is wrong. The art of no does not need to be loud or dramatic, but just to say No, please do not do that is sufficient. A quiet powerful No is much more effective than a loud one which can make you look weak.

She needs to learn to start saying no to this as she will have bigger problems further down the line. There is been polite but not been a complete doormat and establishing boundaries.

Tbh I tell my girls that that don't have to be polite if someone is making them feel uncomfortable like that and touching them etc . Think of this extended to a stranger on the bus etc. I think it's ok to tell them they don't have to be polite. When it comes to something like that i think they need to learn to stand up for themselves and understand their body is their body and no one can do that without them being comfortable with it/ giving permission.

You need to speak with the group safeguarding officer - maybe it is completely innocent but it is clearly making some uncomfortable. Just because he’s old doesn’t make it acceptable - people need to be called out on these things.

Have a look at the safeguarding policy for the club - there should clear guidance on how to deal with such a situation and who to speak to. If no safeguarding policy exists, question why that is as there should be one in place.

Your advice to your daughter is sound but I would also speak to someone associated to the club. There should be a clear outline on how to approach something like this.

She needs to move away and say "please don't do that I don't like it". Bugger thinking it's impolite to say anything, it's impolite and more to touch someone without their consent. Let her have a voice because that is why girls and women these days accept shit like this and men continue to invade personal space and boundaries.

She doesn't need body language. She needs words.

A strong clear voice. Please do not touch me. Call him out immediately.

I take it the man is a member of the hobby group not an instructor/leader? Just get your husband (or you) to speak to the leader and tell them that this behaviour is inappropriate and the leader needs to speak to him. There’s too much pussyfooting around here, he needs telling. If it’s a leader then they need to be reported through the organisation’s safeguarding procedures.