What's going to happen to the north of England and Welsh voters who got royally fucked by Brexit and have now voted Reform?

[JacknDiane]

Will they never fucking learn?

Wales has always been a Labour voting country, many people would rather cut off their own fingers over voting Conservative and there’s a general lack of appetite for further devolution or nationalism, unlike in Scotland. So what do they do when they lose all confidence in Labour? They turn to someone else who they think could represent the working class (I.e Reform). Something new, a protest against Labour.

I had to vote Plaid out of fear of Reform winning a majority, and many others did too (thankfully). Generally speaking though, there hasn’t been a huge appetite for Plaid in recent history. The electorate was just full of past Labour voters with nowhere to go. I didn’t really know who I wanted to vote for, all I knew is that I categorically didn’t want Reform.

Even though I don’t agree with it (Reform), I think it’s a bit ridiculous to just hope the voters get their comeuppance because it will affect everyone, not just those who voted for them. A lot of people are disillusioned and struggling, and have been for a long while. People feel like they have been failed and typically people go towards such parties in times of economic struggle (we saw this in Germany prior to WW2 😳).

It’s more important than ever to pay attention to the struggles of those in more deprived areas. We either need a better Labour or a new party to represent and be a competition to reform. I haven’t lost my empathy towards the masses yet, but I am very worried about the direction we are heading in. As per usual, this should have been predicted since we always tailgate America. The trouble is that in a general election Reform could easily eat up votes from both disillusioned Labour and Conservative and result in a majority. Now is not the time to just give up on people, this is the time where politicians really need to step up or we are going to be governed by the far right.

The ones who voted Reform are the counties nearer to England.

Why is there very little focus on why the Conservative party and the LibDems did badly?

No head in sand here! It is awful that Reform did so well, although in some areas the greens got as many seats as Reform. But I am still going to celebrate Reform not being the biggest party here. Particularly as it could be that this is their peak in popularity 🤞

As for Plaid Cymru not getting a majority, that is inevitable with the new full PR system in Wales. It is almost impossible for any party to get a majority, the system is designed to favour coalitions/co-operation. So not too worried about that, although I think there are a few things in the new system that might need a tweak.

eta: @Ghht , excellent post.

This is getting ridiculous.

Can’t you at least amalgamate them into one thread?

Now added to the hidden thread pile.

That's very interesting about the Majority vote, you Keane something knew every day!

Yes, here's hoping they have peaked!

Learn not 👆

No, but maybe, just maybe, they can start to fix the nepotism, fraud, inefficiency and incompetence that wastes huge amounts of public money. Not saying they're capable of doing it, but I think massive change is needed to knock some sense into some politicians, local and national.

British nationals are responsible for 85% of universal credit bill

To be more accurate that statistic includes Irish nationals and some Commonwealth citizens. Also, people who may have gained British Citizenship, e.g. we don't know how many of the 2 million people granted British Citizenship between 2000 and 2014 are claiming universal credit.

To be honest, this is what I'd like to hear, rather than the moaning about how stupid poor/old people are! Only 30% of people voted Reform where I am but we have still ended up with a Reform council. All I have heard is how shit they have been in other places- paying off debts which has a 1% interest rate out of reserves which were earning 7% interest, selling off local government assets that were in museums, stopping funding for ESOL classes, which does nothing but under funds Adult Education, puts a load of (mainly White) English teachers out of work and prevents people integrating into the community and paying their way. It's terrifying the damage they could do, but frankly for those of us stuck with them, it's heartening to hear anything good or even not terrible, because we are stuck with them for at least a year.

Naturalised Brits are Brits. It's ridiculous to make a difference like there are two tiers of citizenship!

I was talking about the leadership, yes, and your comment about councillors from other parties really was a sweeping and patronising generalisation.
Contrary to YOU, I have not resorted to personal insults.

Where I am, and this is not an exaggeration, you cannot drive or walk for more than 2 minutes without being diverted by roadworks. A simple thing like, in town, crossing a road to visit a shop involves a round the block detour. Half the car parks are out of action. We have roadworks up to our eyeballs. I would take the potholes any day in return for actually being able to travel somewhere in a straight line.

@Clavinova that was my understanding also that places that had seen a huge and unprecedented rise in population were allowed EU funds.

Similar to our nearest city. So many pedestrian crossings, road closures, road works, one way streets, traffic calming, access-only roads, pedestrianised streets, car park closures, on-street parking restrictions, etc., and all it's done is caused traffic congestion, increased pollution and now loads of shops/cafes are closing due to lack of business as motorists are choosing other towns and the out of town retail parks instead of suffering the "man made" traffic congestion. Some councils really hate cars and they're willing to sacrifice the entire town centre to prove their point!

Just because they got elected does not mean they are popular. To get elected you only need to get support from about 25% of the population. The issue is the other 75% of votes are split between multiple parties. So it isn’t that Reform are the choice of the majority.

Ah yes another goady arn't people thick thread, because this sort of thread always changes people's minds.

ffs, its like people that post stuff like this refuse to learn.

@Clavinova and don't forget the people in lorries we had a massive problem with that still do.

What like Swansea?

Effective councils are required, the inexperienced will have to very quickly learn their role.

The new councillors can’t hide forever. Council meetings are public events, in person, recorded live and available to view.

I have a long background in Children’s Services, know just how experienced and knowledgeable our employed Director of CYPS is and how terrifying it would feel to be the elected council member for CYPS, responsible for holding her to account for her and her teams actions in protecting vulnerable children & young people, raising education standards, meeting statutory duties around school attendance, school and early years place planning and safeguarding.

I will be watching the first Reform led council meetings, Barnsley and Wakefield (I know both) for instance will make for interesting public viewing. Vast numbers of new councillors, following council protocol, asking challenging questions, scrutinising plans and outcomes, all in public.

These new councillors better step up very quickly, they have a huge role to carry out.

I meant the ones who predominantly voted Remain.

Clearly relevant to the post I was replying to though!

I don't necessarily agree with you on everything (I'd identify as left of centre) but I suspect you're the mid ground voter that the Tories, Labour and Lib Dems should be trying to capture. I suspect I'd vote for a party who hit your wish list. Not being racist or tolerant of racism, having a clear environmental plan and addressing people's concerns without targeting or blaming groups or targeting our rights would be an amazing starting point.

No, it's not. Once someone is naturalised, they're British so they would show up under the 'Brits' stats. No need to account for them in a separate category unless you push some sort of nativist agenda with a two-tiered citizenship system.

People vote for who they think will serve them best. Insulting them or being condescending doesn’t really help. 🙄

I doubt the intention of the thread is to change people's minds - what would be the point? The election is done now, the councils that have fallen to Reform will remain that way for at least two years depending on how their election cycle works.

What will affect people's opinions is how they perform - will people see any benefit from the administration change? If, by the time the next election rolls around, be that local or general, things are the same or worse then they might think again.

The issue, as I stated earlier, is that the choice is - well, there isn't one for the average person like me who wants a peaceful life in a tolerant society without having to watch every penny because I am being taxed to the hilt. Who is worth voting for, either locally or nationally when the time comes.

Reform - a couple of silly headline grabbing policies, no real economic plan at all
Labour - let's rely on middle earners to pay for absolutely everything
Tories - let's screw everyone bar the top 0.05% of earners
Greens - want to throw everyone's money into unrealistic environmental initiatives with no consideration of the wider economy