What's going to happen to the north of England and Welsh voters who got royally fucked by Brexit and have now voted Reform?

[JacknDiane]

Will they never fucking learn?

? Local council elections are 4 years. Next year it'll be different councils up for election and who knows. There's no guarantee Reform will win those.

Stop the potholes!

🤪🤪

Yay, more roadworks - just what we need. Not.

As a Welsh voter I am very happy about Plaid Cymru’s performance. However if Reform win the next general election that is going to be very bad for all the UK devolved administrations. I hope to God they don’t.

I live in London, have always worked. Married a man whose parents came to the UK in the 1970s spent their working lives working for the NHS. We have mixed heritage kids so immigration and multicultural system is working very well for me.

People are politically illiterate. I said this on another thread but in my area the Reform flyer promised things the council have absolutely no jurisdiction over I.e ending net zero and getting the migrants out.

The mainstream parties have failed to deliver for many people in the North, so they are voting for something different. This is not surprising.

The reason many Northerners are voting Reform is that they are fed up with the disingenuous pro immigration messages they are fed. They can see the difference between a skilled immigrant who works and pays taxes and respects British values and many of the immigrants they often live alongside.

Many immigrants in the Northern mill towns do not contribute to the British economy. But they do receive state benefits and use the NHS. Many women do not work outside the home for cultural reasons. Many of the men are low skilled and either do not work or work in the black economy and do not pay tax. Many are content to live in their parallel societies and make no effort to integrate. Many of the women in particular do not speak any English for example. Because they marry within their own communities and/or go back to their countries of origin to find a marriage partner this is unlikely to change.

The tendency for southern local authorities to relocate illegal migrants - often unskilled, young single young men who have no respect for women and girls - to these cheaper Northern towns adds to the problems.

I do not think Reform will deliver either. But implying that Northern voters are all stupid, as OP does, suggests a real failure to understand and address the issues poor Northerners are facing.

No. It'll take a huge amount of time. The reason for that is not stupidity, it's frustration, hurt, bitterness. Those override more rational decision drivers and parties like Reform are expert at making sure their supporters stay stuck in that negative loop. It will take a huge counter-movement like in Hungary (after 16 years of populist rule) to see any change. At the moment, the worse they fare the more they gravitate towards the very people who landed them in the shit.
Someone from a former Soviet state told me a chilling story about Stalin once which may or may not have been true but certainly highlights those psychological mechanisms (it's a fairly famous story actually). The story went: Stalin had a summer villa in the countryside and had invited a few dignitaries of his regime. When talking about why the people were still sticking by him despite all the brutality, he allegedly picked up a poor chicken and plucked off all of its feathers. The bird now naked followed Stalin around, trying to be as near him as possible. The 'lesson' was not that the bird was stupid. The lesson was that the bird was cold and vulnerable and following the only source of warmth to keep it alive - even though it was the one that had made it so vulnerable in the first place. It's how abusers trap their victims. Hurt someone enough and they may well stick by you.
It's a horrible story but it highlights some uncomfortable truths about why it's so hard to break free from toxic people (and/or ideologies).

I have no idea why you think the people who voted for reform, for local councils think they have voted to stop the boats. Local councillors have leaflets/ social media and websites to indicate what they will be doing for the local area just like the other parties.
My local council have pulled out of the refugee resettled programme for example.
Seeing all this hysterical drama and insults is beyond insane, people really need to seek help mentally.

I agree @HeatonGrovand I’d also throw in how the authorities have treated the racist rape gangs over the past decades and how many people in authority have turned a blind eye. It’s no wonder people have had enough.

It's the illegal immigrants people object to. When your village suddenly has an influx of men, many of them allegedly teenagers, and they hang around outside, it no longer feels safe.

As a counterpoint to that, how many Green candidates have been standing on a Pro-Palestine ticket? Many. Local government can do naff all about the Middle East.

If it solves the potholes, then yes, we do need it, however I think you may have missed my joke.

Our local town centre has been regenerated due to the foresight (and admittedly spending £££) of the previous council. I'm worried what Reform are going to do to it now. Maybe they will just reap the benefits and claim it as their own doing?

Plaid are the party with the most seats in the Senedd, not Reform.

The outcome likely depends on how much time elapses between now and the next round of elections. If they happen quickly, you’re right, but if there is long enough for people to see the outcomes of the change voted in this time, they may vote differently in the next round.

Great.

The point is, people have different views on migration depending on what they have experienced. If all you've experienced is wonderful surgeons, or your own experience of moving to a new country and wanting to integrate, it's a totally different experience to the local people living here, as I have described.

I grew up in leafy middle class area with a fair number of migrants/second and third generation of migrants. I was practically "colour blind" to race as a result. But it was totally different to where I live now, the sheer number of migrants, the lack of integration, the number of face coverings, the need for interpreters as so many are so recently arrived, the antisocial behaviour of one particular group, the slum landlords of the area all being migrants or children of migrants... plus in tbe context of wider issues such as difficulty obtaining housing or employment.

I actually think we should have an intentional prgramme to settle migrants in the communities who vote with a pro-migration stance. Or at least something where they are spread out more evenly. I challenge anyone to live next door to the particularly antisocial group round here without longing to deport them! Even if we disregard those outliers, it makes sense for integration to have everyone spread out a bit more.

I've said I didn't vote for Reform.

I'm just trying to explain what it's like in an area where there is anti-migration sentiment and why that might be.

Ignoring people's reasoning and viewpoints doesn't make the problem go away.

The things people presumably would expect if all the migrants hadn't been allowed in:

[PLEASE NOTE I AM NOT NECESSARILY AGREEING WITH THESE OR ARGUING THE CASE. JUST TRYING TO EXPLAIN THE VIEWPOINT]

More housing availability/cheaper prices due to less competition, due to fewer people.

More jobs at the lower end, due to less people (yes I know fewer people actually means fewer jobs too, although not sure it's one job loss to one person loss).

More cohesive society rather than separate groups, including those who cover their faces which is a big separator.

Schools where your child is not the odd one out ethnic minority, unless you are the one who has chosen to move countries (yes I know many schools would be closed).

Easier availability of GP appointments etc due to reduced population (yes, far fewer NHS staff too, although we should be training out own not poaching them from other countries who have paid to train them!)

Specific local one, I admit this isn't really fair as they are outliers! - end to the extreme noise nuisance, broken furniture dumped/smashed up in the service lanes, peace and an end to the midnight screeching and brawling in the streets. Mind you, this group do sterling work for community cohesion, as everyone else of all races and creeds jointly hates them!

These are just off the top of my head. Re. the fancy car - I mentioned that because there is so often a tendency amongst lefty circles (which I generally count myself in) to view migrants as sort of powerless, at the bottom of society. Therefore being against migration is always, in their view, punching down and therefore a no-no. I was just pointing out that this isn't the case, and if you are poor/disadvantaged and the people in your local area flashing the cash and in positions of power are migrants, it is more likely to create resentment than support for them. Which weirdly the lefty people would normally understand - the poor/disadvantaged punching up to the well-off/privileged.

To add to my previous post - can't believe I forgot the local paedophile gang that was caught a few years back.

Because no one in the south voted Reform?

The issue is how to put pride back into northern communities where factories, mining, etc etc have all but disappeared leaving the ordinary working class with few genuine prospects for a half decent life. Further, the minimum wage worker is demonised as stupid, and a drain on society for claiming benefits. Tackle that, and the fact that Reform are able to win on what is little more than racist propaganda will disappear overnight.

they’re sick of people looking down on them and not listening to their problems and concerns - Thing is Reform don't either. They're just much better at giving the illusion that they do.

@StandFirmthe hundreds of people who stood to be local councillors this week are not looking down on their electorate. They are people from
the electorate, they live amongst them, not in some posh place in London.

On the ordinary working class prospects - yes, they're bad, and they've got worse. Working class. Middle class too. It's tougher all round. But anyone who turns to Reform's false hope should remember that they're in the pocket of tech bros and that they favour deregulation. Nothing will improve. We'll just be a poor US vassal state (and this time, the term vassal will truly apply). I wish I could say 'it's your funeral' but we're all going to be dragged down with it.

That's quite a patronising and sweeping assumption to make on non-reform councillors! No, they're not all posh idiots from London. My areas dodged the Reform bullet and there are very decent very local people across all non-Reform parties.

I waa surprised by the size of the reform voter in Wales. Im not Welsh so do follow thier politics much but I see plaid is left leaning?

So it guess anyone right leaning didnt have much option as the conservatives did such a bad job for 14 years and that whole 'boris wave" has been pinned on them. So if you are centre right leaning and not pro mass immigration I guess there isnt seen to be a choice.

The centre right really needs to sort itself out.