Women’s hour - birdwatching. WTF is wrong with some women?

[crawlingovertheline]

Caveat first - I know we’re all different but COME ON women!!
The feature was about a woman birdwatcher called Lucy. She was encouraging other women into bird watching (wonderful).
However, as she was explaining her backstory, she explained how “scary” and “terrifying” and “intimidating” it was….picking up some binoculars. (Yes, you read it right, these were her words) and it was only after two (male) birdwatchers helped her that she felt confident enough going birdwatching.

Now listen, I know some people are not confident but REALLY? REALLY???? You can’t pick up some BINOCULARS without help from a man? (Two men)

Women have fought in wars, we give birth, some fight and strive to survive, are women so weak now we can’t have agency over taking up a completely risk free hobby?

What on earth is happening?
YABU - maybe it really was scary, terrifying and intimidating
YANBU - this is disappointing, come on girl wake up!

I haven't listened to it but I personally can't imagine being scared of men that engage in Birdwatching as a hobbie. That said, if I was very young, perhaps I would feel like that, also if it's about a male domain then yes, I can understand the hesitation. However, I would attribute that feeling to more of a traditional male domain like a snooker hall. Despite this being one of the only sports men and women can compete against each other, I would imagine the cultural history is why you don't really see an equal number of women competing in the WST. I think at the snooker hall near us, some teenagers will go in groups but not girls on their own and it is to play Pool not snooker.

This. ^ I prefer the company of men who some may class as nerds. I couldn't be with a man who is into sport, especially football, or bloody golf. Many men like this mix with misogynistic men. (The world of sport tends to be very 'manosphere.')

My DH (thankfully) is not into sport, he likes the same things as me - literature, theatre, sci-fi, nature, films, music, cats, the countryside, the beach, and travelling.

DH and I (and our 2 DC) are obsessed with the Merlin Bird App, and love to see (and log) all the birds that are in our area. I went 'birdwatching' on my own a few weeks ago, at a local Nature Reserve. There were around 12 men and 8 women, so it's nonsense that it's just men.

It was clumsily phrased. I can't imagine for one single minute she literally meant she was scared of actually picking up binoculars and putting them to her eyes. Because quite frankly nobody is. It's just a turn of phrase, like someone saying they were nervous when they first picked up a fishing rod (as in when they first went fishing). And for any woman who hasn't been part of the twitcher community, I can tell you that it is fucking intimidating. It's populated by older white pompous shits of men, who are more interested in the competitive side than the thing they're supposed to be watching. It's like an old boys club with a bad reputation for being a closed shop, especially towards women. So yes, it can be scary especially when you're in the middle of bloody nowhere with these men. Why don't those posters criticising Lucy give it a go themselves instead of ripping her apart. She's done some good work so how about applauding that.

Twitching is not the same as bird watching though. No one starts as a twitchesr so why would you make a programme encouraging people who are not confident in nature to go in at the deep end?

But those men and cliques existed doesn’t preclude other people (women) from birdwatching they? Surely you just don’t engage with them. Why make a big deal of it? Why do you/whoever give them any power at all to affect what you’re wanting to do? There’s plenty of space out there!
It sounds like an excuse to me, or ‘content fodder’.

"It is really intimidating as a young woman trying to pick up a pair of binoculars, it is really scary" This is what she said.

She goes on to say how scary it was when she was in her early 20s.
I don't know how old she is now and whether it really was such an intimidating thing to get into then.

We can still applaud the work she has done and be disappointed in how she came across in this particular part of her interview.

Binocular give away if you're on the Merlin App!

Going in at the deep end? 😂 It's BIRDwatching mate, looking for and seeking out rare and uncommon birds (and more common ones too!) it's not swimming with sharks or climbing Mount Everest!

Birds don't bite! And neither do any of the MEN who do birdwatching!

Some of the comments on this thread are batshit! 😆

.

But the male volunteers won't be serving tea in the cafe.

You have seriously never seen male volunteers serving in a cafe or shop???

REALLY?! 😆

You really think that in these hobby groups, the men all group together and order the women to make the tea and coffee, and do the domestic tasks?

OMFG! 😂 This thread is the gift that keeps on giving!!!

Oh you are so funny @Zov . 😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆
Or a twat.

HTH.

But the male volunteers won't be serving tea in the cafe.
Say what?
There's loads of volunteering places I've been to as a cafe customer and males are working in the cafe. I'd never thought to question it, they serve tea and cake and clean the table afterwards.
No doubt there maybe some places but im thinking of places where we ( at work) take the young people we work with in the summer such as miniature railways in parks where there's a cafe or national trust places.

I love birdwatching but I'm not a twitcher. I don't want to be part of the twitcher community. Bird watching and twitching are worlds apart. In fact the appeal of bird watching is that I don't have to be part of a community. It's something I can do on my own to get away from people. I like watching birds and am just as happy in the garden watching robins and magpies as I am going up a mountain in Wales to watch red kites. There's a particular tidal phenomenon that I go to and it draws a lot of twitchers. I ignore them. It's quite easy.

Don't be daft. It's not cricket c1920 where he devoted wives and mothers show up to provide the food.

Normal does not a BBC programme make! I think the researchers trawl for those that really don't make great role models.

enter by 23rd april

@Hallamule have you been out in the real world recently? My son’s school has a special focus on cricket and they have a ‘Ladies Society’ who organise the cricket teas. I absolutely do not engage with this at all. But it still exists. Sexism still exists. I know we smash the patriarchy on a Wednesday but weekend hobbies are totally still affected by it. There are still a whole cohort of men out there who do not want women in the workplace but legislation exists to force their hand. The one place they can still 100% close ranks and exclude women is in the leisure sector. They don’t want women there. And you’re absolutely bonkers if you think turning up with a set jaw and a firm handshake is going to make them see otherwise.

Oh, the one I saw said 4th May, but then when I read the small print it was only for residents of USA and Canada!
Sorry for the misinformation.

Are the Ladies Society ground down by the patriarchy and feel they have to do these teas? If a group of women want to set themselves up in this way then good on them! Maybe they enjoy that time spent with just women doing something pretty simple.

I hate all these labels and stereotypes- DH and his friends, my brother are all well educated in subjects like philosophy, politics, English Literature. My DH visits Art galleries quite frequently, enjoys design as he is an Architect but they are all big football fans! Equally, they idea that do called, 'Nerdy' men are all soft and lovely is just as ridiculous, they can be equally of manosphere vibes.

Give off manosphere vibes not 👆

have you been out in the real world recently? My son’s school has a special focus on cricket and they have a ‘Ladies Society’ who organise the cricket teas. I absolutely do not engage with this at all. But it still exists. Sexism still exists.

I hear what you're saying, but it’s worth looking at this from a different angle—one that’s more about personal choice than outdated roles. For many of the women in the Ladies Society, this isn't about being "forced" into the kitchen; it’s about a group of friends choosing to get together and support their club. When we label it as sexist, we might actually be overlooking their agency. They aren't doing it because they have to; they’re doing it because they want to contribute to the club’s atmosphere and be part of a tradition they genuinely enjoy.
Beyond the teas, these groups are often the real social heartbeat of the club. It’s a space where they’ve built their own network, formed deep friendships, and actually hold quite a bit of influence over how the club feels and runs. If they find value and a sense of belonging in it, then the society is really just a platform they’ve built for themselves.

It’s less about "women’s work" and more about a dedicated group of people finding their own way to make the club a better place for everyone.

I used to help out at my lads football club. I dont like football but I liked mixing with the other mums and it made the session more enjoyable and everyone appreciated a brew and a biscuit at the end. I didn't feel put upon or that was my place at all.

Yes, unbelievably, this happened 'In the real world' Nobody is forcing you to engage and with a sour attitude like that they would be happy that you didn't id imagine.

but even then none of that is 'terrifying'.

Annoying, yes, discriminatory, yes, possibly a bit intimidating (depending on your character and general experience), but not in the sort of extreme way it's described here, as something so distressing it is normal to be put off ever doing it. The first day of a new job can be a bit intimidating, for example - it's completely normal to feel emotions, but not to be ruled by them.

If she said "I was a bit nervous/unsure of what to expect" then nobody would have commented. It's describing things the slightest bit out of your comfort zone as 'terrifying' and 'scary' that's ridiculous, not just because it's overdramatic but because, as pp's have explained, it actually furthers the assumption that these spaces are not for women by justifying how unusual it is for them to be there.

Agree with this! My "special interest" is football and the men I mainly hang out with to watch matches/go to matches are a lovely mixed group. Sometimes if there's no football on we'll go to a gallery or the theatre or for dinner with spouses.
Even the random men I meet when watching football are 95% lovely and never weird about me being a woman who likes the thing they like. Like any enthusiast they're delighted to meet someone else to bang on to about Arsenal's low block or whatever.

Out of all the posts on this thread, you say I have the sour attitude? I’m agreeing with the concept that it can be challenging to take up a hobby where you may feel excluded. And if you want to push through that excluded feeling in your spare time, more power to you. Equally if you find somewhere where you feel welcome and fulfilled, go with that. Nothing sour about that.