Women’s hour - birdwatching. WTF is wrong with some women?

[crawlingovertheline]

Caveat first - I know we’re all different but COME ON women!!
The feature was about a woman birdwatcher called Lucy. She was encouraging other women into bird watching (wonderful).
However, as she was explaining her backstory, she explained how “scary” and “terrifying” and “intimidating” it was….picking up some binoculars. (Yes, you read it right, these were her words) and it was only after two (male) birdwatchers helped her that she felt confident enough going birdwatching.

Now listen, I know some people are not confident but REALLY? REALLY???? You can’t pick up some BINOCULARS without help from a man? (Two men)

Women have fought in wars, we give birth, some fight and strive to survive, are women so weak now we can’t have agency over taking up a completely risk free hobby?

What on earth is happening?
YABU - maybe it really was scary, terrifying and intimidating
YANBU - this is disappointing, come on girl wake up!

Did you listen to the programme?
All of what you say is true but we are commenting on how scary and intimidating it is to pick up binoculars. It was some bad radio if she was trying to get across what you’re saying.

So when women talk about feeling scared or intimidated walking home alone late at night or taking precautions to make them feel safe that’s acceptable but it’s not acceptable for a woman to want to feel safe and secure whilst being alone out in nature?

You should listen to it and then give your opinion.
Surely on Woman’s Hour they are able to talk truthfully about their experiences, it’s not under Taliban rule.

She said she was scared and intimidated about picking up binoculars.

I have. She’s as batshit as she appeared on the programme.
I cannot relate to her at all. We must live in parallel universes is what I’ve concluded.
She seems to have created an online profile and written books off the back of the idea that women are weak and vulnerable and the countryside and enjoyment of nature is a male domain.
I just don’t believe it.

As an aside, when people (male or female) start complaining about severe online abuse and backlash I am immediately suspicious about what their message is (with a few exceptions of course).

I don’t think it’s about going birdwatching at all. I think she’s raising her profile and nothing more.

That’s a completely different conversation. Of course women have real safety fears in that scenario, but that’s not what is being discussed here.

And often when someone says they’re scared to pick something up there’s meaning behind it, not just I’m scared to touch them

Just to be clear are you talking about Lucy lapwing or McRobert?

I'm not sure a man speaking to you in a flat tone makes him a dick. A lot of men who are seriously into bird watching are on the spectrum though. They tend to speak in flat tones, avoid eye contact and want to be left alone.

Separately to that, I've always been pleasantly surprised how many men w scopes and serious birding habitats have been willing to take time out of their day to show me stuff (and, when I was younger and attracted more unwanted attention, without hitting on me).

but are you also scared of binoculars?

This. I've followed Lucy's work for years and seeing women talk about her like this is one of the worst things I've seen on Mumsnet and believe me that's saying something. Those of us working in the sector recognise what she is saying, maybe not for ourselves personally but many women do not feel comfortable in remote places alone or in spaces where there are more men and this excludes hobbies like birding. We work hard to try and reach people so that everyone can experience the benefits and beauty of the natural world. Those were the people she was talking to, not you that's great....don't come on here and call this hard working brilliant woman and Mum pathetic. She did a great segment on female bird calls as well that was really interesting that might be more up your street if the access to nature segment wasn't. Some of y'all need to spend a few hours in a hide regulating your emotions.

Of course, but that’s not what she conveyed.

Can't be arsed to listen to WH.

So those of you in the sector recognise exactly what she was trying to convey. Good.
Woman’s Hour is not a birdwatching/nature programme, it’s broad in its scope.
OP (and others) did not recognise this when she said she was terrified to pick up binoculars. If she’s as brilliant as you say it’s a shame she didn’t think prepare for her WH interview better.

It is utterly, utterly depressing and frustrating.

Think about the messages we are sending each other (and our daughters) as women:

• we should have ‘imposter syndrome’ when embarking on anything that involves risk or being in a different or challenging environment eg starting a business, getting a promotion, going to a new place
• we should be at best uncomfortable and at worst terrified of being in male company if there aren’t other women present
• we should fear for our safety on the streets and in isolated places - regardless of the actual risk
• we should assume we are incapable rather than assuming we are capable
• we should rely on our husbands for the care of multiple children and the undertaking of traditionally ‘male’ tasks because we won’t be able to cope
• we should get more and more fearful as we age and shrink our world accordingly

And yes, MN perpetuates this.

I think there's a deeper issue here for sure.
I was interested in her linking the 'just out of uni' and being 20 years old, immediately before saying she was 'intimidated' by the binoculars.
This hints at an anxiety and malaise that is prevelant among young people, and that can affect young women as they move from eager child with binoculars and bird feeders to an awareness of the predatory male world. In fact I think McRobert says she has been a birder from the age of 6...presumably she was not 'scared' then.
That said, in the time frame she had, it was a broader brush stroke message than she had time to unpick (and which Antia Rani certainly wouldn't have - she tends to the surface and not letting people speak).

What I meant was that if you turn up at a heritage railway, offering your time, these types of societies are run by men. There is a strict hierarchy of jobs and the one you are most likely to be offered as a woman is in the cafe, serving tea and coffee, rather than making tea for other volunteers. The women who do make it on to the footplate face so much sexism to get there. I mean, you’re still called a fireman if you work steam engines. I can’t find the link but one woman published her experiences of having to prove she was better than the best just in order to get on at a heritage railway. She was being openly bullied and discriminated against. And whilst I’m in awe of her tenacity, a hobby is supposed to be enjoyable and enriching. Not feel like an uphill battle every time you want to do something in your spare time.

This made me laugh as I just took a bunch of 5-10 girls birdwatching (with binoculars!) and I don’t think any of us were terrified!

I totally agree - it’s mind blowing.

Im in the sector and am increasingly frustrated at the messaging that is sent out in the name of "increasing access". The truth is that the woods and the fields and the hides are full of women so there's space for more nuanced messaging and leaving the tired old stereotypes in the box.

'Never mind the Nobel Peace Prize, you look beautiful and I love your shoes'

Just as in every area of life, there's a certain type of male twitcher who feels it's his little male club and who's threatened by the presence of a woman who might know more than him, or have better more expensive equipment.

Best laughed at then ignored. They're pathetic not "scary". That woman certainly didn't do the cause any good.

Don’t get me started on ‘Women in Business’ . ‘Women in Sport’ is another. It boils my blood.

Exactly.

This can absolutely be the case but it's also true that newbies are supposed to to "serve their time" by performing some of the less exciting and glamorous tasks. It is really annoying when someone new joins because they want to drive the train but who has no intention of giving a hand with in all the dull stuff that makes the whole thing function.

Edited to add: the latter is by no means a woman-specific problem