Women’s hour - birdwatching. WTF is wrong with some women?

[crawlingovertheline]

Caveat first - I know we’re all different but COME ON women!!
The feature was about a woman birdwatcher called Lucy. She was encouraging other women into bird watching (wonderful).
However, as she was explaining her backstory, she explained how “scary” and “terrifying” and “intimidating” it was….picking up some binoculars. (Yes, you read it right, these were her words) and it was only after two (male) birdwatchers helped her that she felt confident enough going birdwatching.

Now listen, I know some people are not confident but REALLY? REALLY???? You can’t pick up some BINOCULARS without help from a man? (Two men)

Women have fought in wars, we give birth, some fight and strive to survive, are women so weak now we can’t have agency over taking up a completely risk free hobby?

What on earth is happening?
YABU - maybe it really was scary, terrifying and intimidating
YANBU - this is disappointing, come on girl wake up!

I would think, to be very generalising, that the men who are into birdwatching and trainspotting are less likely to be the chauvinist pig type and more likely to solely talk about birds and trains to men or women.

Agree with this, the scope creep in language is insidious.

The worrying thing is that hyperbolic language like this may well be affecting how we actually experience things. Google the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis - there are multiple studies that have demonstrated that language shapes thought and perception, not the other way round.

In other words, if we describe something as terrifying, we are more likely to actually feel terrified.

Watching birds (and trains) was something my late DH loved and while I was knowledgeable as a child, didn't pick up the binoculars (too scared) until he bought me a pair.
This was about 34 years ago and at the time it was a massively male activity, especially the rabid twitching and acquiring of birds for lists. The term used then was "had".

I know.

DH wanted to separate himself from such men, saying he's always wanted to ask such a man, "Have you had a shag?".

Now I think of it, back in the day, and it may be still, the term to describe a bird's characteristic stance was "jizz", which I consider inelegant. Now I see it's GISS which, perversely I see as mealy-mouthed.

I still have his book of lists, both birds and trains.

Because it’s pathetic and not worthy of respect. Women aren’t obliged to agree with, support or respect everything other women say and do

It's a symptom of the attention-seeking gush and hyperbole that now infests our language, everything has to be 'amazing' or 'fantastic', it can't be 'quite pleasant' - and you can't be 'a little nervous' - you have to be 'terrified'.

We see this here on MN. People always 'confront' someone, they never just speak to them. Things are always 'obscene' or 'horrific', never just a bit unpleasant. People are always accused of 'hating' if they've expressed a dislike for something. We've seen it with reference to lockdown - young people being 'locked in their rooms for two years'. Somewhere that might be a bit run down - or even a perfectly OK place - is a 'shithole'.

It all gives the impression that things are much worse than they actually are.

I have two friends who do it, one is a very well known MNer!! Start a thread and I bet she finds it!

Just plain weird to be scared of picking up binoculars and being independent. I don’t get it

I did read once where a poster was actually terrified of a particular style of jeans being fashionable because she didn’t think she was skinny enough to wear them.
🤷‍♀️

I look at them. I'm a train spotter spotter.

That falcon's getting a better night's sleep than I am! Thanks for the link, lovely non-scary way to bird watch.

she sounds pathetic
wrong choice of word though,
it would have been better surely if she had said anxious, worried, or nervous about it, but scared - how?

I've had a few weird experiences birdwatching. I went into a hide near me when I had just got into birdwatching. It was full of men with massive kit on tripods. They looked at me scathingly with my little binoculars and wouldn't speak to me or make room for me. I left and never went back there. I also had an experience recently when I saw some guys with a similar set up in Mull. I asked what they were seeing and a guy looked up and said in flat tone ' were you speaking to me?' He wasn't very nice. His pal let me have a look as a white tailed eagle in a tree. I wonder if it is related to the size of their kit?

on biting binoculars, I went to get new ones last week and was very glad to be served by a female who didn't try to mansplain stuff but went through the options methodically and let me try them until I was satisfied with the ones I chose.

These are just my own experiences. Not really scary but some men can really be dicks no matter what the hobby. I prefer just to sit on the beach/park/hill on my own to stare out at the birds. It possibly makes women vulnerable doing this?

That's should say on buying binoculars. I wasn't biting them.

I didn't hear the interview. But perhaps her experiences have involved being belittled by the type of men who know it all, who have all the kit and who dominate the hides?

I personally wouldn't love going somewhere isolated to sit alone in a small enclosed space with what seems to mostly be men. One in four women in the UK has been raped or sexually assaulted, and that's just what's reported, so I'd say that's a common and prudent wariness. A different matter if she's somewhere safer, but still id imagine a lot of the best birdwatching places are rural and isolated.

From what people have described on this thread, it reminds me.of my mother's approach to men. Unsure of how to act, so tends to fawn and reduce herself to try and get what she wants and maybe keep safe.

Perhaps this interviewee wasn't able to directly say publicly why she really felt intimidated; people tend to dogpile on women who don't fawn over men. Or, as evidenced by a lot of this thread, tend to believe that their experience/outlook is the only correct one, an incurious internalised misogyny, perhaps.

If she phrased it as not having the courage to pick up binoculars - well you could sit anywhere in The U.K.,maybe not town centres, and look through bins at the birds. Mine are permanently on the kitchen window ledge. And I take them with me on walks etc.

To me it suggests an ignorance of the countryside on the part of London centred BBC.
i think they need to get out more….,

Yeah honestly a lot of the time that story arc is justified. I would understand if it was something traditionally male like football or motorbikes. But birdwatching is about as gentle as it gets!

Try joining a club! I’ve been on several heritage railway trips with my SIL who has been a railway engineer for 40 years. She has an absolutely marvellous time talking technical railway stuff with the volunteers (who yes, are all men who have trains as their extra special interest) and every man has been respectful and just beyond delighted that there is a new face to talk about trains and signals and couplings.

I think posters need to look up who Lucy McRobert is. She's involved in projects to get people interested in nature. That involves research. If the feedback has used the word scared, then why should she ignore that? We don't all live in the same place, have the same past experiences etc, trying something new, can be scary. Having to be in groups of men, even more so, depending on your lived experience. If you're younger and attractive, that brings another element in. If you are a woman of colour, wear clothing that identifies your religion etc, that's another element, especially after the racially motivated rapes that's happened. Which is why, women only, women of colour, Muslim etc groups have started. It's really the best thing for MH, it doesn't have to cost a lot, you can do it with children, so we need to address and break down the barriers that stops women from engaging.

I just had a look and it appears to be half and half. What I will say is nature reserves are almost always filled with older white middle class people making you feel out of place if you don’t fit into any of those categories. I actually had this discussion with my students a few weeks ago- we were discussing places they don’t feel they fit in as a working class person/BAME/woman etc. Art galleries came up a lot and also the countryside.

The equipment is mega expensive, even often to hire for the day so it’s also quite an exclusive hobby. I almost never hear regional accents either so feel I stand out for that too. I’m a bit of an amateur birder but I don’t have the gear and I don’t dress like them with their hiking get up and whatnot.

I thought the same!! It was so scary and then some lovely men helped her… so how was it scary?! FFS

I also cringe when I hear women 'i need a big strong man to do that for me' for things anyone is capable of doing

Maybe because I am in a rural area I wouldn't agree that these groups of middle class (not always) / mainly men (not in my group) / expensively equipped (not me) people are unfriendly - the opposite - but geeky hobbies have some geeky people and you aren't going to get bubbly, chatty extroverts standing in a cold hide for hours (quietly as you cannot disturb the wildlife) waiting for some rarely seen species.

We do come across single men in the middle of nowhere on their own with bins who we pass a few words with - but it comes with the hobby - if you are really interested you will probably be happy to be a loner quietly studying the bird life, i imagine you see more than when in a noisier group. Just because they are alone and 'unfriendly' ie quiet doesn't mean they are predators.

Are there any instances of lone women ramblers/ hill walkers or bird watchers being attacked or raped?

Very early in my career I perfected the art of making a really terrible cup of tea if people asked me to do it because I am a woman .

They never ask again

(The first few times it was accidental to be fair as I don't drink tea)

Rather off the point, but I love the Merlin app! I loaded it a couple of weeks ago and I think I am now a fledgling birdwatcher.

It's pathetic because she said what she said but, equally, everything these days is "scary" for men and women. Basic functions, like going to work or talking to people or driving, are "scary" thoughts that must be overcome with a biscuit at the end. It's exasperating.