Violent rapist allowed to stay in UK to rape again

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Is there already a thread on this case? I will ask for this one to be removed if so. I am just angry that this horrible man’s feelings were put before the fact that he had a fetish about violent rape.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5ye594p0z0o
It is quite wrong that the judge ordered he should be allowed to stay in the UK when it was clear to the Home Office that he would rape again.
Sorry, I have tried to insert a question about there being an inquiry into the decision of the judge to let him stay to rape women again but my phone won’t let me.

I’ve no idea where you got the impression that I think he should not been deported after his first offence - certainly not from anything I’ve written.

I clearly stated that I think he should have been deported after his first sentence and the HO clearly screwed up by not attending his tribunal appeal.

Germany has produced relatively recent statistics on crimes committed by different groups of immigrants and refugees, and there are a lot of articles discussing these. Here's an extract from one of them:

"There is a higher incidence of crime among people with a migrant background across all categories.
This is particularly evident as the severity of offences increases, for example in the areas of violent crime, sexual offences, and gang-related and organised crime. However, it is also becoming increasingly common in cases of disorderly conduct in public spaces.
However, this does not affect all migrant groups by any means, but primarily male adolescents and young adults with migration backgrounds from the ‘Middle East’, ‘Sub-Saharan Africa’, the ‘Balkans’ and, to some extent, ‘Eastern Europe’.
The reasons for this increased crime rate among certain migrant groups are not solely social or demographic, even though these factors play a role; they are also culturally and psychologically rooted.
Germans, on the other hand, are victims at a rate far above the average, and indeed are particularly vulnerable to crime committed by migrants."

Here's another extract, which is pretty shocking:

"Algerians in Germany were responsible for around 30 times as many cases of grievous bodily harm that year as German citizens, relative to their share of the population – although it should be noted that these are only suspected offences, as at the time of recording they were suspects and not convicted offenders. Citizens from Libya, Gambia, Guinea, Somalia and Sudan are also particularly over-represented in these offences."

"‘Immigrants’ three times as likely to be suspects
On closer inspection, a striking pattern emerges regarding immigrants as defined by the police: for certain offences, their proportion among suspects is as much as three times higher than their share of the population, and in some cases even higher. This applies, for example, to dangerous and grievous bodily harm, robbery offences, as well as rape, sexual assault and sexual offences in particularly serious cases, including those resulting in death."

If anyone's interested, this is a useful article:

Kriminalität und Migration: So hängt beides zusammen

Interesting how some posters go quiet when faced with actual evidence relating to different ethnic backgrounds and criminality. Their refusal to acknowledge different opinions and viewpoints is a big reason for protest votes. Lots of migrant workers contribute positively and it is important to acknowledge this but a significant number think UK law does not apply to them. The posters who adopt the pretence of being superior to all of the rest of us, even if they are wrong, do their cause no favours.

There does seem to be an undemocratic "no debate" feel to it. This is what a German politician says to a journalist:

‘It was a mistake to leave this whole issue to extremist forces in politics, with the result that the public came to believe that the democratic centre didn’t want to talk about it.’ This breeds mistrust, says District Administrator Doğan.

It seems that the Germans are now making a real effort to look at the facts, by keeping records of the ethnicity / nationality of criminals and victims.

I don’t know anything about this research but I do know that Germany is a safe country with a low overall crime rate, lower than the UK. And significantly lower than it was 30 years ago. The article you are quoting is very biased.

Culturely and psychologically rooted? I would query how they measured that,

Also German make up the most victims ? Well yes of course, most people are German. Per capita migrants generally are more likely to be victims of crime - mostly because of where they tend to live.

I’d ask whether the study looked at other factors- there is more crime in urban areas for example, young males are more likely to commit crimes. Other studies show time and time again that when you take these factors into consideration that immigrants commit crimes at a similar rate to the rest of the population.

That’s what critical thinking is about. Being able to analyse an article and recognise biased language.

I don’t have any issue with other viewpoints or opinions. However, as we see on this thread that people are reading things that has no basis in fact at all - saying he’s an asylum seeker, saying that the deportation laws in Italy are stronger than here. None of that is true. It’s a worrrying development and, to me, a sign of a failure of the education system.

I totally agree with the German. I see this here, the far right has filled a void that wasn’t being tackled by more centred politicians.

Germany has collected nationality as part of crime stats for decades though. So I don’t think your second point is true.

As far as I can see the numbers were collected by the police. I quoted from different articles, not just one. They certainly don't come across as biased - they focus on the figures, without the kind of inflammatory language our newspapers tend to use. There are loads of articles by journalists and academics, which seem to have been produced after figures were published by the police a couple of years ago.

It's clear from the articles that different migrant populations (they consider both the refugee population and, separately, the established immigrant population) commit crimes at different rates. One article commented that people from Morocco commit crime at a very high rate because they are predominantly young men from gang culture. People from Ukraine at a fairly low rate because they are largely women and children. But there does seem to be a consensus across the many different articles that people who are not "German" (German passport holders?) commit crime at a much higher rate than Germans.
The various terms are defined, and there's loads of detail, but I don't have time to go through everything and run it all through a translator for you - feel free to do that yourself.

And I of course assume that someone writing an article about crime statistics has taken into account that there are more Germans than other nationalities living in Germany when he notes that Germans are more likely to be victims of crime. Do you really feel the need to patronise everybody?

What's important here is that the Germans are collecting that information, and are actually looking at it and trying to learn lessons from it.

"Refugees are about three to four times more likely to come to the attention of the police for criminal offences than the local population, Walburg tells WDR. He has been researching the links between migration and crime for years. He is currently acting professor at the German Police University in Münster, where he heads the Department of Criminology and Interdisciplinary Crime Prevention."

Gosh, he sounds ignorant and biased, doesn't he?

No he doesn’t sound biased, but the overall article is biased. If you don’t recognise then it’s really difficult to know what to say to you. My question would be, after reading it, is do German young men commit similar rates of crimes to other nationalities who are also young men? Because of course women and children commit less crime and therefore I would expect to see very low rates of Ukrainians commuting crime in Germany or anywhere they have moved to. But this isn’t cultural.

And Germany has taken the nationality of criminals for decades. So I don’t understand your point that they are doing it now.

You should do some reading up on 1930’s Germany while you are at it.

I don't know why you assume that everyone else is biased, stupid, ignorant and uneducated. I am none of those things. That article mentions a few actual crimes that have happened locally, to get the reader's interest, but it then moves on to focus on the statistics, relying a lot on that one respected criminologist. It's published by the public broadcasting service in the Koln region of Germany. Koln is probably the most liberal city in Germany, and they have been extremely welcoming towards immigrants.

As to your question about young men. I don't pretend to be a criminologist. However, I don't believe that young men everywhere are equally likely to commit crime, no. And I don't think you'll get the same results in respect of crime if you take those young men from different parts of the world to the UK and dump them there, either. There is a big crime culture in a city like Pretoria or Tijuana. Young men live that culture. If they then move to London, they take that culture with them. Young men from Beijing or Tokyo - not so much. And men who are brought up in a culture where they are taught, from early childhood onwards, that women are vastly inferior to them and are there to serve them and to provide them with sex take that attitude with them wherever they travel. When I was in my twenties and went interrailing on the continent on my own, I experienced a certain amount of sexual harassment / threat of rape. I was surrounded by white middle-European men, but without exception the sexual harassment was from immigrants from, at a guess, the Middle East.

The other question is, if young men are so likely to commit crimes, is it a good idea to welcome so many of them? It's women, and in particular girls and young women, who pay the highest price.

Thank you @Turtlesgottaturtle
Really interesting research studies.
I am irritated by @Gealach’sattempts to discredit your scholarly research by petulantly claiming that if you don’t agree with her, you are ‘ignorant’. Posters who try to discredit other posters by sneering at them are generally untrustworthy. The comments to you about reading up on Germany in the 1930s are a nasty attack and smacks of someone trying to close down scholarly research findings for her own ends. Keep reminding yourself that 96% of the nearly 350 voters on this poll agree that The Nigerian rapist should have been deported.
@Turtlesgottaturtle, you write well and you make clear, academically supported points. I am grateful to you.

But I think that this person should have been deported. I think it should have been done because I think non rape sexually motivated crime should be treated as seriously as rape. And I think generally rape should be treated more seriously anyway.

I don’t think the poster is ignorant or stupid but i question their ability to critically analyse what they read.

Most studies do show that young men, who live in urban areas and are marginalised are more likely to commit crime. How do we deal with this? that’s the question.

We already have marginalised (not sure how you define that) young men who live in our urban areas and commit crime.

That does not mean that other young men, who may have grown up in some of the most violent parts of the world, and/or have been brought up believing that women, and especially Western women, are all scum who are there to provide them with sex, do not on average commit more, and more serious crime. They are certainly more likely to be marginalised than the young men who are originally from London.

Looking at Germany again, the figures show that North African men commit a very high number of crimes. Apparently a lot of young men from gangs in North Africa migrate to Germany. That explains the culture of crime that they bring with them.

Is it a good idea for us to be adding to our current crime problem by welcoming more young men, who are far more likely to be marginalised (if only because of the migration experience, without their families, etc), and who will often bring a higher crime culture with them?

We need an immigration system that works quickly and efficiently. If the question is how to persuade marginalised young men who when they reach the UK are too old for the education system not to commit crime - well, what would you do @Gealach ? Assimilation into the UK classes? English language classes? Encouragement to join football clubs etc? Further education classes providing training towards jobs? With the stick of not being allowed to stay long term if they commit anything worse than a minor crime?

I don’t think any of this really has to do with this case. This man who was raised in Italy and the UK is very much our creation. But yes. Projects targeting young men would lower the crime rate and I don’t disagree that people who commit serious crime should be deported.

I also think the whole asylum system should be different but again it has literally nothing to do with this case.

Yes 96%. It’s pretty conclusive and the idea the solution is to educate us more is fairly insulting. There’s plenty of women who feel strongly who are educated, not that it matters, anyone can have this view.

@ Gealach. You write 'Most studies do show that young men, who live in urban areas and are marginalised are more likely to commit crime.'
I think you can work out the solution to your question. Single young men who are most likely to be marginalised, should be strongly discouraged from seeking asylum in the UK.
You also claim that Gift Oladele, the violent rapist, who is a Nigerian citizen and arrived here at 11 years old is 'very much our creation' (a bit of a God complex going on here). He is absolutely not my 'Creation', or the UK's Creation but an evil, wicked man. For the record, given that you are so disparaging about the educational system, no schools teach that rape, sexual assault, violence is acceptable. The saying 'Give me the child until he is 7 and I will show you the man', indicates that a child's personality is formed by the age of 7 or 8. The age of criminal responsibility in the UK is 10 years old. By then a child is expected to know the difference between right and wrong. Gift Oladele, the violent Nigerian rapist did not arrive in the UK until 11 years old.
I take no responsibility for a violent Nigerian citizen committing rape. Neither would anyone else on this thread.

The article is completely correct and unbiased. I've got the stats for Germany and men of certain nationalities are massively, disproportionally over-represented in crime, including rape and sexual offenses. It's just a fact.

@Gealach here you go - might take a few minutes for MN to approve the images. It's a similar pattern in the Nordic countries.

Agree. Child murderers have gone down for shorter sentences.
As much as we would like certain criminals locked up for life, our justice system has its sentencing guidelines that apply to everyone - citizen or immigrant.

Many years ago, I was on a 3 wk language course in the Balkans. We [students from the UK, other parts of Western Europe and the U.S.] had a two week language course and then a one wk cultural tour.

There was only one particular town in one particular province where we had problems. It simply wasn't safe for a woman to be out on her own in that province. We were actually subjected to [relatively minor, I suppose] assaults in our hotel - unwanted grabbing, pinching and so on. I was in my early 20s at the time.

Those assaulting us all came from one particular ethno-religious group, judging by their attire.

Afterwards, we realised that we hadn't seen any women working in our hotel at all. It turned out that there were women working at the advertised 'disco' - strippers.

This was 1983. We'd seen the disco advertised, had gone along but were mauled at the door before we'd even paid entry. We managed to elbow our way out and make it back to the main lobby and then to our rooms.

Years later, I started to see reports of men from that group being involved in gang warfare etc in London.

You don’t seem to understand what I’m saying. The article presents the figures in a biased way. You can tell this from the language

Some nationalities are over represented in the Nordic research but when you look at age, socio economic status and where they live, that gap closes.

Across every country, the strongest predictors of crime are things like poverty, inequality, and age—not whether someone is foreign-born.

Your talking about millions people, different people, different nationalities and kind of lumping them into one group as well. So if you see an article doing that - you’re reading a biased article.

Honestly that sounds like a way hand wave away facts which make you uncomfortable.