Animal cruelty - lack of support on threads

[theyhavenovoice]

so am posting here because I’ve tried on other threads ( keep getting moved). In light of the last few days and what we’re learning. Testing on animals/ Beagles in the UK. I’m feeling heartbroken and have been so unaware. Anyone else?

Probably at my age I would.

Do you not feel any regret at the pain animals are put through for humans?

It's the brute faced 'fuck animals' aspect of your stance I find hard to bear. I see you support animal testing, but if you were to just say, it's bloody awful isn't it, then I could get it.

You must rather drugs were not tested on animals though?

I'm sorry you are in the position where you need the drugs, I really am.

to be brutally honest I’d rather be alive.

im also eligible for weight loss drugs but I need the cancer sorted first. I have high blood pressure. If a doctor recommends a treatment on the nhs why wouldnt I take it? I’m not paying for any of them privately to be clear.

Refusing medical treatment thats already on the market isn’t going to help pp save animals though. It still doesn’t mean we have to be apathetic or downright dismissive of ethics.

It’s the same as saying why do you care about farming if you eat meat, or why care about stray animals if you haven’t adopted them all yourself. Can we not do better than this

There’s no ‘fuck animals’ in my beliefs. My issue is the complete lack of understanding of animal testing that so many people on this thread have shown.

And your comment about WLIs was just bizarre.

The drugs that are available NOW to keep me alive have been tested on animals.

would people really refuse them? I’m not talking about vanity treatments. I’m talking about curative chemo. I’m talking about pain relief that means im not wanting to kill my self with constant nerve pain. Or top myself due to SA and rape so I take antidepressants.

If a doctor recommends a treatment on the nhs why wouldnt I take it?

Because it is tested on animals and if you lose weight by changing your diet your blood pressure is very likely to reduce without you needing weight loss drugs or blood pressure medication.

I genuinely hope you are well very soon.

OMG that’s awful!

I take antidepressants which have a side effect of weight gain. Due to a very traumatic rape and SA.

I am also physically disabled - I can’t mobilise well, I have crutches and a wheelchair.

im also on steroids. A lot. Which also have weight gain as a side effect.

I’ve already changed my diet.

my blood pressure is sky high due to stress (cancer, arthritis, rape, police to deal with, not safe in my house etc)

You don't need much 'understanding' to interpret photographs of animals in restraints being subject to a life of agonising torture only relieved by death.

My comment about WLI is relevant as they are tested on animals.
A recent thread on here linking the two shook out a lot of 'fuck animals' I just want the meds sentiment.

You're here in total support of animal cruelty. I can see that.

And all the WLIs started life as treatments for diabetes. Which is a life threatening condition. The fact that they help people lose weight was a beneficial side effect. Because not all side effects are negative. Yes, they make money for pharma companies but on the other hand, overweight and obesity cause all sorts of other health problems. I can excuse ignorance of this, but your comment about pies is just plain offensive.

Stop with your straw man arguments.

I don't follow? Can tou help menunderstand what you mean?

I think perhaps I was clumsy in my emotional writing -

I added that (theyre not different to us) to further drive the point home and bring it closer to home... not to say "animals who are not like us are totally fine to mistreat"

I'm sorry if my post was not clear.....

A very long time ago, Paul McCartney protested against animal testing for everything including medical purposes. After the death of Linda, his first wife, he admitted that she had undergone treatments that had been tested on animals, in a desperate attempt to treat the cancer. It must have been a hard reality for them to accept, but much respect to him for admitting the fact.

You do know that the use of WLIs on the nhs is not really just for people who want stand clear if the pies don’t you?

i became overweight once I was put on to steroids. Due to a life changing accident that left me disabled. And then antidepressants following a traumatic event. I don’t over eat. I can’t even tell you the last time I had a pie… and I can’t stand. Not without support.

Well as far as I am concerned, some prisoners have put themselves outside of such considerations by their own disregard for other people's right to live. There were actual scientific reasons why it's not feasible.

A prisoner is still a human being. Human rights aren’t based on for good behaviour or the character traits of a person. it would open the door to abuse, torture, and inhumane conditions.

And do you mean all prisoners, or just those who have committed the worse crimes? What about the people who have been wrongly convicted? And what about prisoners who are there because life has treated them so badly they ended up making bad decisions?

Absolute rubbish, most people who do this job are wonderful caring compassionate people towards their animals.

People who are not caring and compassionate are weeded out quite quickly and moved to other areas. No-one I have ever met who works in this area allows anyone to commit animal abuse/crulety at all. Cameras are everywhere, nothing can be hidden, everyone is watched and if there are any accusation of mistreating the animals it is investigated and if found to be true they are fired and sometimes reported to the police.

There are alternatives to many of the previous animals tests, almost all companies use alternatives if they can (organ on a chip is promising but we've found issues with it, AI is not ready yet).

WRT to the high number of animal tested drug not going to human trials - yes but that is a good thing as it means less chance of humans being harmed.

I am absolutely against animal cruelty/abuse, I have pets myself, but I see that testing potential drugs on animals (limiting the numbers used to the absolute minimum) and carefully considering how the experiments are done is something we can not get away from (at the present time).

I think many many people will be amazed at have 'few' animals are used in bringing a potential drug from the test-tube to be accepted by a regulatory authority so you can inject something never given to a human being before for the 1st time. It is suprisingly few animals.

What, the vets who without exception have to use medications tested on animals to treat the animals in their care?

Huh? Why the agression? We are on the same side!

Perhaps my post was not clear...
Animals are sentient beings; they feel fear, they feel pain, joy, sadness, they enjoy belonging in a pack etc. Primates in particular have very similar family structures. Sentient beings... Just like us.

I do think that is reason enough to be upset at animal (primate or otherwise) testing, yes. What other reason would there be?

It is why I am upset at that image of the the monkey, (and, after clicking theough to the article- the beagles whose image was not posted in thread.). However, I am not upset at an image of someone cutting a carrot.

I wonder if my use of the word primate confused matters?

Do we actually know that these scientists are big softie animal lovers? You’d have to be incredibly desensitised to do this job for any length of time or just not care about animals at all. These aren’t pets that can be cuddled, they’re live test subjects. Even if they wanted to, presumably they wouldn’t be able to? It doesn’t exactly give much comfort.

People have been campaigning about this for decades. Some people care, others think there are more important things going on. 🤷‍♀️

to support a very well known vet administered pet flea treatment. It wasn’t enough, apparently, to test for efficacy against fleas.

That is about safety, not efficacy. Particularly for parasiticides that impact insect nervous systems and are intended to kill them, there is a very real risk of similar effects on dogs. There are also some breeds of dogs with specific genetic mutations that make them extra sensitive to side effects, which means specific studies have to be done (again, mandated by regulatory agencies) to ensure safety in the most sensitive individuals.

@HappyInTheSea I think the problem is though, that if someone is cruel to animals they DON'T necessarily go to prison... Our whole society signals by the pathetically small sentences that this is an unimportant crime - the amount of people that are horrifically and disgustingly cruel and violent to dogs, who then get 'banned from keeping dogs' as if that's an appropriate sentence to somebody who has knowingly and spitefully inflicted pain.

There's a society-wide issue with people not viewing this as an important moral matter.