AIBU to worry that my adult daughter is keeping her distance?

[Lowenn]

Hi all, my eldest DD is 25.
She moved away for university in France in 2018. After her degree, she did her masters in Italy which lasted 2 years, since then she has lived in Geneva and briefly Lisbon.
Every time she goes through a break up, she seems to move cities entirely.
We haven’t properly seen her since Easter of 2024, so 2 years.
We tried to go and visit her without messaging first, she said she was too busy to even stop for lunch or dinner. We basically spent about 15 minutes with her, that was last year.
She sent a message afterwards saying that she did not appreciate us turning up without being invited and if we did it again she wouldn’t be so kind.
We have asked many times when we can go visit, she always says she’s too busy. We have asked her to come visit us, too busy. When my mum died last year, she sent flowers and a card, didn’t even call, didn’t come to the funeral.

Now I’ve been worried for a while, but she seems to be doing well and I thought maybe this was just her spreading her wings. I try to call her once a month. The last 2 have been really short.
Finally this afternoon she picked up, I asked how Geneva was, and she replied oh didn’t I tell you I moved back to Paris, in January!!
I asked for her new address as I send cards and presents. She didn’t reply.
I messaged her after the call asking for it again, she said she would rather not give it this time as she doesn’t trust us not to show up unprompted.

I am terribly worried, she had a good childhood, we have very good relationships with our two younger children, I don’t understand what’s gone wrong.

AIBU to be worried, what do I do?

Completely agree, some of the nastier responses on here are quite adolescent in their aggression

I have been the daughter overseas trying to pull away from her mother so I am looking at this from a slightly different perspective than other posters.

my guess is that you turning up in a different country unannounced was a huge shock and felt like a massive overstep in the boundaries she had tried to draw up as an adult.

and despite you having talked about it, and it being some time ago, she hasn’t moved on. That’s why she won’t give you her new address.

If you want to i think you need to make a solemn vow to her that you will NEVER do that again. And then take things step by step from there, letting her draw the firm boundaries.

my mother never had any idea how suffocating she was and also would have told her friends I had a good childhood.

Some people just aren’t very nice. She may have good reasons for keeping her distance. On the other hand she might just be a selfish unpleasant person 🤷‍♀️

To clarify my previous post - i am not accusing the OP of being a bad parent. But nothing about what she has posted suggests she was either a good or bad parent!

Aside from the overstepping by turning up unannounced

How is turning up to your DD’s house unannounced overstepping a boundary.
It’s their DAUGHTER!

Call me old fashioned and shame on her parents for having the nerve to do that!!

Do you have to book an appointment to see your own family these days 🗓️

This sounds so tough. I can feel your pain. Just keep communications open by messaging with news from home, letting her know you are there for her but don't put any pressure on meeting or getting a response. On the surface, she sounds selfish but as a mother you of course will worry there is more to it, as there might be but she isn't ready to tell you yet.

Have you thought of writing her a lovely letter expressing your love for her and your concern for her wellbeing? Balance the two of those tho... and ask if there is any way you could keep in touch whether it be by email, zoom, messenger, telegram etc... say once a month? Let her know how much you love and miss her and wish her well in her life.

My parents were good, loving parents when I was a child and certainly not abusive but really struggled with the transition to adulthood - my mum in particular - so my teens and twenties with them were rocky. I didn't cut them off, but wasn't very communicative or involved either and I lived abroad for a long time. One of the biggest issues was that they treated me in a way they would never have treated their friends or a family member of the same age and it felt like a continuous pushing of boundaries.

So, things like I'd say they could visit for 3 nights and give some suggested dates and then they would book a week even though I had said 3 nights because it was more convenient for them. They struggled to accept a no to visiting if I was in a busy period at work and didn't have holiday. They struggled to respect that I was a working adult and would often ring during my work day, and then be frustrated that calls were short. Would expect me to always be there at Christmas even though it wasn't convenient for me and would be difficult when I wasn't. When I did see them, they struggled to treat me and my friends as adults and there were a number of very embarrassing professional situations where they babied people working for me or tried to take over decision making on things I was managing at work. Once I had kids they expected things to be a family decision rather than my own - I remember we had spectacular rows about things like me buying a house, taking the kids to a family funeral and not seeing people in covid because the kids were too young to be expected to socially distance - because they expected to have an input into those decisions. They never turned up completely unannounced in my city expecting me to see them, but that would have been consistent with their behavior.

I'm in my 40s now, my parents in their 70s, and with them aging and needing a bit more help, we now pretty much now have the adult relationship which I would have liked to have at 18.

Have you got a family whatsapp with you, your husband, her and the younger children on it? If not, I would create one and post something on it that you want to share with the family, roughly weekly. Don't discuss creating it or make it a big deal, just make a group with all of them, call it something like "Hi" and just send an initial picture with a caption. Eg the first daffodil in the garden, an award you get at work, a picture of the family pet etc. Don't aim this at her or ask questions of people or make a fuss - just gently share things which aren't emotionally charged. And don't jump in on every message from someone else - leave space for the kids to message each other or for it to stop being used for a while and then started up again.

Keep the monthly phone calls as she seems to be tolerating them, but try to give her a bit of a heads up that you're calling - maybe message a day or so before saying "Are you free on Sunday? I was thinking about giving you a ring" if she says no then respect that "OK, no worries, I'll try you in the week instead. When would be a good time?"

If shes in Paris and you want to see her, next time that you need to be in Europe for something think about getting the train through Paris. Send her a message saying something like "I've got to go to Amsterdam for work in a couple of weeks, so I'll be getting the train through Paris. Would you like to have coffee? I can do daytime of evening on any of these dates"

My first thought reading this, was like another poster said, could she be a victim of trafficking? I sounds so similar in the way that she has phased you out. Hopefully we have been over exposed to awful things and she is just having a good time but if you ever had a safe word between you, now is the time to pull it out.

Yes you do need to make an arrangement before turning up at my home whether you are family or friend. I don’t think that’s an unreasonable boundary. Turning up to see your child in another country is really pushing it.

My parent said the same as you, you shouldn’t have to make an appointment to see your own child.
The reality was they would turn up at times that they knew were difficult or they knew someone else was visiting. It was a game and highly manipulative.

It’s ok to want notice for a visitor or meet up. Being a parent doesn’t change that.

I would think increasing the number of calls is the last thing she needs to do, DD needs space. I’m sure if she wanted to increase contact, she’s perfectly capable,

Agree that the surprise visit was ridiculous but OP not respecting her boundaries doesn't explain why she is also NC with her siblings.

I feel for you. And my post is going to be tough but i think if you open your eyes there’s a chance of healing

I think your daughter is in an anorexic pattern not that she still restricts eating but mentally it’s the pattern.

I could write a novel because I have personal experience in all this and I recognise most elements of your story including the retreating far far away bit. I’ve been the daughter in this with more than a decade of eating disorders and have also a daughter myself who has been affected by anorexia. I did a lot of soul searching because of all of this.

I don’t know where to start so google is saying it better:

Anorexia nervosa often involves a complex, sometimes enmeshed mother-daughter relationship characterized by poor boundaries, high control, and mutual emotional dependency. These relationships may involve the daughter struggling with independence, leading to a "devotion, passion, and annihilation" dynamic that directly impacts the severity of the eating disorder.

Key Aspects of the Relationship

• Enmeshment and Boundaries: A "toxic co-dependency" often exists where there are no clear boundaries, and the mother and daughter may feel emotionally fused.
• Control and Autonomy: The relationship frequently centers on control issues, with mothers sometimes exercising intense control over a daughter’s life, leading to the daughter using restriction as a way to control her own environment.
• Role Reversal (Parentification):Daughters may act as caretakers, or become "parentified," having to care for their mother's emotional needs, which creates a feeling of being stuck and unable to assert independence.
• Body Image Transmission: Mothers' attitudes toward their own weight and dieting, as well as criticism of their daughter’s body, can heavily influence the development of the eating disorder.

Common Dynamics

• "Symbiotic Syndrome": The mother may rely heavily on the daughter for validation, emotional support, and her own sense of identity.
• Fear of Separation: A struggle often exists between the urge for independence and the fear of losing the mother, often resulting in conflict, anger, and anxiety.
• Shame and Criticism: The daughter often internalizes societal and maternal pressures to be thin, with criticism (or perceived criticism) of her body leading to shame and disordered eating.

Moving Toward Healing

• Establishing Boundaries:Creating healthy, separate identities for both mother and daughter is crucial.
• Fostering Autonomy: Allowing the daughter enough independence to make her own decisions.
• Family-Based Therapy: The mother can be a powerful ally in recovery, but often needs guidance to change interaction patterns.

@Waftaround many posters on MN think having an open door policy and people (usually family) popping in unannounced is normal and don’t understand other families where you have to make arrangements/message first.

OP had tried to message and hadn’t seen DD for a long time and were worried about their health.

If you feel anything breaks guidelines, report,

I love my parents and am close to them but they know there are lines not to cross.

She no longer trusts her mother enough to tell her she’s moved countries and won’t give her address.

That reflects more on the OP than the daughter.

Something seems to happen in the minds of parents who have been cut off by their children where they are just unable to countenance/process that they could ever be at fault. This seems to be the case even when they have been expressly told why.

I’d really recommend reading this about “the missing missing reasons” The Missing Missing Reasons

And maybe booking in some therapy so that you and the therapist can talk about what might have happened to cause this.

I agree with the people saying “my parents would say I had a great childhood but my therapist would disagree”. This seems to be a very common discrepancy.

And many people don’t have that policy but it doesn’t reflect the closeness of the relationship.

It’s almost like some people are different from others…

i would never turn up unannounced even to my parents house (we live very near each other and have a close relationship).

@DiamondsAndDenial did your thesis look at impact of ND on anorexia.

Can the posters who think OP is obviously to blame explain why the DD moves countries every time a relationship breaks down. Is that her parents fault too? That’s pretty extreme behaviour

Has she kept in touch with any of her old friends @Lowenn?

Perhaps she doesn’t trust them not to tell their mother.

I realise the OP means well but she sounds like she could be quite full on (unintentionally)

@LiviaDrusillaAugusta I don’t have that policy either but some posters are saying no-one ever just pops round as if that is a completely alien concept and obviously shows this is an example of having no boundaries and an awful childhood.

You sound dreadful

But unless you are in the family and observed every interaction between parents and children you dont really know if this is the case do you? how on earth can you say you know a couple were great parents unless you know exactly what went on behind closed doors in their home?

Liking someone and thinking they are a great person from what you have seen of them does not mean it's utterly impossible they abused their children or didnt treat them well. People put on a front to the world usually and what you see is very different to what people close to them see. I am not saying this is true of the OP but just that you cannot assume anyone has had a great childhood just because their parents claim it to be true unless you were actually there throughout it all (and I mean all, not just parts of it)

That's your view.

I’m not that poster but perhaps she is subconsciously trying to escape all the time.

If she feels like her boundaries are ignored (I know that my parents used to ask all the time about visiting and it would incur a massive feeling of anxiety) then it makes sense.

She is an adult and the more she’s pushed, the harder she will push back.

How long ago was that? Parents are no longer seen as to blame for EDs. The causes are often multifaceted. I don’t fit into the categories above. I’m physically unwell and have had a few major surgeries throughout her life, so that could be classed as unpredictable I suppose. I also note you haven’t cited neurodivergence.

My dd is the extreme perfectionist and needs to control her environment. Always has. And there is a history of her trying to control me from age 4/5. A lot of her anxiety stems from having a medical condition herself. And neurodivergence. It’s not uncommon for a sufferer to have increased anxiety over the 12 months before an ED developed.

My dd had no desire to lose weight when the ED started. The last trigger was when she was extremely hurt, when a brief relationship ended, and wanted to be like the popular girls. They skipped lunch. Dd copied. She also confided her pain in an adult, who I now know is a functioning anorexic. I suspect something was also said to her.