To suspect police are worried about vigilantes - Epsom attack

[ReadingCrimeFiction]

I live relatively close to Epsom and so this appalling assault is all over my news feeds and social media.

BBC News - Town left in shock by appalling rape outside church
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8dl5yevjg9o

The police have asked for witnesses but no descriptions have been given. Cue lots of very disturbing posts and comments from people who very clearly think these men are not white.

I can think of half a dozen scenarios where this is not being disclosed but, based on the comments, I think it all comes down to fears that local communities will take it on themselves to "apprehend" anyone who even vaguely looks like the perpetrators? And while the comments I am seeing are mostly white people being disgusting in their assumptions about brown and black people, i can imagine police would he equally concerned if, for example, the woman was Asian or Black and her attackers were white.

Is this where we are at? Where people make horrible racist assumptions and/or where police have to worry about how they will protect the broader community if they give any details of criminals?

Powerful groups of men imposing a very extreme version of a mainstream religion on the rest of the population?

@Another2Catsits nothing to do with flags outside town halls is it - its people putting flags up on every sodding lamppost just because they are showing how ‘patriotic’ they are…..

Yes I agree it's unspecific, that's why my original post said record ethnicity, not race.

No joke, this is why I avoid going to some parts of the US now.

I'd say it counts, since we have laws which provide for prosecution in the UK for various offences, including violent and sexual offences, committed by British people abroad (even if not classed as a crime in the overseas country).

We've had that for centuries in the case of murder and manslaughter but it has been extended to sexual and other offences, including under the Criminal Justice and Immigration Act 2008 and the Domestic Abuse Act 2021.

I wish that these laws were highlighted and enforced...
(A quick look at MN threads on stag dos will show they are not sufficiently...)

You re whatabouting about victims of rape and now the plight of women in Afghanistan, could you be less crass please?
Your political biases are blinding you.

“Unfortunately at this stage, we still do not have sufficient information to release the descriptions of the suspects. However, we are continuing to work with the victim, who is being supported by a specialist Sexual Offences Liaison Officer through the process, to progress these enquiries.”

This is fair. You want descriptions that are actually useful.

No, I seriously have restricted US work travel and seeing friends.

I also am asking for joined-up thinking regarding VAWG (MN stag do threads are excellent evidence of 'packs' of British men going after women). And regarding national complicity and accountability.

Vigilantism and prejudice are not British values.

@OtterDoBetter do you believe “cultural misunderstandings/differences” is an acceptable defence in sexual assault cases? Because this has been used in several cases recently, eg woman raped in a London hospital by a patient. If you were a jury member would you consider this defence valid?

This is a barefaced lie.

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/metropolitan-police_uk_603fa18ec5b617a7e411ffc5

If I were a jury member I would be more likely to find them guilty for using such a nonsensical and knowingly false “excuse”.

This is not a good faith question and derails the OP's thread. I refuse to engage, or to be insulted.

To return to the OP's question, I have some confidence in police procedure, and think that the 24/7 news cycle leads to too much entitlement from people who want to take the law into their own hands. I am not a fan of anarchy.

It does seem to be the case to say immediately that the offender/s is white but they don’t or can’t if they aren’t….

I wonder if the police do town halls or outreach or training days for ordinary citizens to understand how they work? Might help. I would sign up.

No it’s not a joke. I agree with pp.

Playing this card in defence of a crime is just the worst.

It is either an admission that the culture in question are disgusting, or it besmirches a culture with them daring to blame their crimes on good people.

Neither is mitigation. Its aggravation if anything.

OP, I understand your concerns about horrible reactions 💐💐💐

The way they treat women.
If you are taught that any unaccompanied woman is fair game, or that women not dressed in your cultures clothing are prostitutes, or that women are property, or thats its acceptable to rape non believers in your faith its a good bet that those men will rape without any care or regard towards the laws of the country they have moved to.

If men are taught that rape is wrong, that a woman's body is not mens property and rapists are prosecuted even when they rape their wives and to respect women then the majority wont rape.

Not all cultures are equal and some quite frankly are dangerous and shouldn't be in this country

Exactly this. Either your culture is trash or (more likely given the case this is referring to) you are throwing your entire culture under the bus to try and get away with a crime. Rape is a crime everywhere (marital rape being the one exception.)

This is simply untrue. For example the morning after the Huntingdon train stabbings, the police released details of the suspect:

https://www.btp.police.uk/news/btp/news/england/updated-statement-following-incident-at-huntingdon-station---cambridgeshire/

sigh people do not emerge from a kind of jelly mould in the shape of a 'culture'

So sorry your family is having to deal with this. It’s weird to think I am being catapulted back to the Britain my parents experienced as children.

The collective blame thing especially is bonkers.

Exactly.

But people want their feelings to be true no matter how demonstrably false they are.

This is a lie.