To suspect police are worried about vigilantes - Epsom attack

[ReadingCrimeFiction]

I live relatively close to Epsom and so this appalling assault is all over my news feeds and social media.

BBC News - Town left in shock by appalling rape outside church
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8dl5yevjg9o

The police have asked for witnesses but no descriptions have been given. Cue lots of very disturbing posts and comments from people who very clearly think these men are not white.

I can think of half a dozen scenarios where this is not being disclosed but, based on the comments, I think it all comes down to fears that local communities will take it on themselves to "apprehend" anyone who even vaguely looks like the perpetrators? And while the comments I am seeing are mostly white people being disgusting in their assumptions about brown and black people, i can imagine police would he equally concerned if, for example, the woman was Asian or Black and her attackers were white.

Is this where we are at? Where people make horrible racist assumptions and/or where police have to worry about how they will protect the broader community if they give any details of criminals?

I don't understand some of the responses here. I really don't
All this going on about some white British men being rapists. As if we didn't already know that, as if anybody would deny it.
In fact, nobody is denying it at all!!
So much whataboutery.

This is not about skin colour. I repeat this is not about skin colour.

What this is about is a large influx of men from cultures that do not adhere to the same values about women's rights that the UK does which in practice means that those attitudes are exported here.

These attitudes include women being very much second class citizens. Oh yes they do.

That's it.
And you welcome it with open arms.
It's crazy to me. Absolutely crazy.

What's going on with the psychology behind this? Because there's women like me who would not allow any of these men (not women and children) into the country AT ALL and others who would.

I'm really curious as to why that is.

The men there have some accountability. It’s not a good place for women.

It’s this.

Did any British military men, aid workers, etc engage in sex crimes or child exploitation in Afghanistan or other places? When they come home and behave better here, is it ok for them to count as good British men? And this ignoring behaviour abroad is not part of our culture?

Many of us want to prove something about whether the UK's current immigration policies are leading to UK women being subjected to higher rates of sexual violence, yes, because if government policies are increasing rates of rape in the UK then that's a very serious matter from a human rights perspective. Do you not think it's important for us to be informed about rape trends? If not, why not? If yes, how do you reconcile this with your desire to shun data collection that could show trends and inform policies for reducing rape?

Trying to change the topic to British men committing sex crimes in other countries (and all the other add-ons in your second paragraph) is whataboutery. Anyway, you'd likely find that the answer from many of us is that we would welcome other countries punishing British men for committing heinous crimes in their countries in whatever way they saw fit.

Race doesn't exist except for the human race.

I am just trying to understand what makes Men of a Culture not rapey. Or what makes A Culture not rapey if it is mostly celebs, police officers, people abroad, etc.

Women will always be the ones who lose, no matter the circumstances. We have to deal with our own repugnant men, and on top of that, some men are claiming to be women to gain access to us. If that isn't enough, we are also facing an influx of more individuals.

More whataboutery.

Let’s not look in this direction ➡️, too difficult, too awkward, too political and divisive. Everyone look over here in this direction ⬅️⬅️⬅️, we can all agree those dreadful home grown rapists are much much worse. Dreadful. Awful. Keep looking this way ⬅️

And then told to be quiet, you’re paid, paranoid, whatever else to make it worse.

I know it is, but to what end? She doesn’t even seem to be arguing for anything here.

Ok, so when men of some nations rape, it has nothing to do with their culture and should not affect our perception of that culture.

Other men are preprogrammed differently and we can tell this but not really by looks.

Understood.

I’m not sure in understand. Any culture will potentially include some men who raoe. Just in some cultures, it’s seen as a woman’s duty to remove any possibility of being seen by / alone with a man and if she doesn’t it’s accepted she is liable to be raped . When men from such cultures move here, it’s not surprising done of them going to rape.

Good lord, it’s the actual embodiment of this meme!

There’s a whole heap of diversity, equality and inclusion policies that would tell you different. Race is indistinguishable and irrelevant in the same way that the sexes are equal.

I'm with you all the way, some of the posts on facebook (GB news), about this are horrible. Anyone would think white British people have never been rapists.
I even find myself hoping against hope that when the perpetrators are found, they are white British and that is horrible, I have to push that out of my mind altogether.

We don't know all the facts yet but it's possible the girl was followed from the nightclub by people who were also at the club. Possibly drugs were involved but this is all speculation.

I feel for the poor young woman and hope this case is soon sorted.

No culture is monolithic.

Hold all men who rape accountable, and analyse common factors.

That's a different matter to how people use those descriptives, though. I maintain that most people would use 'Black' and 'Asian' to describe race, not ethnicity.

What common factor is there for the treatment of women and girls in Afghanistan?

Years of war and western powers propping up dangerous regimes and ideologies to keep control of a geopolitically important location.

Manipulation of poppy field drug growing by superrich international drug networks.

Same western powers throwing everyone under the bus.

There is no such thing as "race". Describing someone as "Asian" is so unspecific as to be almost totally meaningless. Is this "Asian" a Bangladeshi? Kashmiri Muslim? Indian Hindu? Sri Lankan Tamil? Thai Buddhist? Rohingya Muslim? Japanese? etc etc etc

How granular should reports of crimes be broken down by ethnicity? Black/Brown/White/Other is useless. Monitoring crimes by citizenship of the perpetrator is probably more useful than ethnicity.

I see, it’s the west. The men there have no role in it then.

Thinking more on this I can see how the current enquiry is uncovering systemic issues.

"...been perpetrated by a white underclass (as correctly identified by a previous poster), and we did have a big problem with flags in the summer."

And just exactly what is wrong with flying flags?

You would hate it where I live then. I live in Peterborough and I was in Bridge Street, the main pedestrianised shopping street, the other weekend.

The local council (it's a unitary authority) had three flags flying outside the town hall. There was the Union flag, the St George's flag and a flag with the crest of Peterborough.

Incidentally, Peterborough council is very mixed ethnically, with 27% of councillors being non-white. However, they didn't have any problem with flying British flags.

Why do you associate flags with "a white underclass"?

The only throwing under the bus I see on this thread is the "progressive" people throwing under the bus all the girls and women who have been raped, assaulted and victimised by foreigners who should not be here in the first place.

But now that you re frothing at the mouth to blame the West for everything, we can see what your priorities are.

I just answered the question about what women and girls in Afghanistan have in common and to my mind yes, it is being victims of generations of war, with all that means for women.

VAWG is my main concern and how our society can avoid spiralling into more violence. Avoiding habits of dehumanisation is part of that.

Migrants and geopolitics, and the unaccountability of white/British men, are the thread's preoccupation. Not mine.