Trans nursery workers?

[ThatWaryGreenBiscuit]

Am I being unreasonable to feel increasingly uncomfortable with my child’s nursery?

A couple of weeks ago they shared a post on the parents app about two people with feminine names completing some training. One of the people pictured was clearly male. I found them on instagram and they are a trans woman. Now this person did not work at my child’s actual nursery, just one of the other settings in the franchise, although they do occasionally switch the staff around, it’s not often. So I thought, I don’t like it, but ultimately moving my child because of somebody working at a different setting is unreasonable. Also it took my child a while to be comfortable and now they really enjoy it. (3y and verbal which also makes a difference too)

Then last week there’s a post about our nursery setting and a reshuffle of staff. Now working at our nursery is another trans person. A female this time who identifies as male. I confirmed them as trans through their instagram again, which honestly contains a lot of potentially worrying stuff. Very heavy on the transition side, art about top surgery, testosterone, nude art, “protecting trans youth” and protests.

Both individuals are young and I haven’t met either, however apparently my child knows the trans man (female).

I’m really not sure what to do if anything? Obviously I have no right to tell them who to hire, and I have no wish to be cruel to these young people.

But I cannot deny the feeling I have in my gut. I feel like my boundaries are being pushed and I’m worried about what their potential motives are for suddenly hiring two trans people and posting about them on the parenting portals/social media in increasing frequency.

There has been a change in management, but I have no idea who is in charge of hiring.

Will it matter as they are young? (The children) Because the trans individual at my child’s actual nursery is female would you be worried? I feel so unsure. It’s very recent so I’m weighing my options.

I will likely only openly share my thoughts on this if I decide to remove my child, as I believe that saying anything will not result in anything positive, and in fact could mean my child is “educated” because of their “horrible bigoted family”.

I know a trans identitifying a that calls himself Jane. Not a woman no matter what he calls himself.

I suggest you explain that to Steph Richards. The Trans identified man who was appointed Government liaison and lobbyist for the Endometriosis South Coast charity.

Steph, who stated “it is scientifically inaccurate to claim only women experience endometriosis”.

But hey - live and let live. You can support these men if you want to. But don’t pretend it is with the aim of reducing oppression for women, when you actually endorse it.

Perhaps consider living up the philosophy behind your username instead.

PS. There are only women. The prefix of ‘biological’ is not required. Just women.

You are misquoting what was actually reported which was

"However, quizzed about the appointment, Endometriosis South Coast said it was 'scientifically inaccurate' to claim only women experienced endometriosis - and that it also affected trans, non-binary and intersex people."

Nowhere does it say specifically trans women! I suspect the omission of any substantiaton was deliberate, as indeed is the indignant interpretation of those intent

Who knows whether that's what was actually said verbatim or has been curtailed. Clearly it needs to be substantiated to explicitly say trans, non-binary and intersex people, who were born with female reproductive systems, can indeed scientifically suffer with endometriosis.

I am not arguing that trans women's biological sex is altered by their gender identity!

I literally couldn't give a shit who is advocating for awareness of this debilitating condition, so long as people ARE.

Safeguarding procedures should be applied stringently to ALL who work with children and vulnerable adults.

Refusing to employ or applying more stringent safeguards for men and transwomen than women, doing the same role, simply because of their physical biology, is literally the definition of gender discrimination.

It is also illegal, and indeed illogical, to refuse to employ trans women in roles that men are eligible to be employed in on the basis that trans women are biologically male.

Children are at risk of abuse from potentially ANY adult, of any gender identity or physical biology within a nursery setting, therefore the key factor is to ensure that no child is left alone with a single adult, especially during changing times, is the key.

The fundamental basis of effective safeguarding involves identifying and preventing any opportunities for abuse.

Following rigorous recruitment processes to ensure known offenders are not employed

AND

ensuring robust safeguarding practices are followed by all so anyone with the desire or intent to abuse a child does not have any opportunity to do so!

And whilst at a lower rate than men, women can and do commit sexual offences against children. To lessen safeguarding for women would be hugely dangerous.

I am a woman and I feel aroused wearing certain clothing - does that mean i am risk to children?

Interesting, neither I or any of my friends have experienced that. Would you wear the clothes that cause you to be aroused at work in a childcare setting?

Do you think it acceptable that if a man is aroused by wearing women’s clothing, they should wear that in a childcare setting?

Some men are aroused by wearing an approximation of children’s clothing. Is that ok to wear in a childcare setting as well?

Why dont YOU share details and figures of trans women who have been charged/convicted of sexual offences against nursery children if you are so certain of their prevalence.

I found an alternative link to the article you shared previously, which does not prove the point or risk that you think it does. Did you even read the article or latch onto the headline.

• The man in question does not claim to be a trans woman. He has however previously performed as a drag queen.
• A drag queen is a performer, not an identity - a drag queen doesn't believe they either are a trans woman or a woman - they are playing a part, in the same way an actor playing a doctor does not believe they are a doctor.
• the man was employed as a nursery teacher, but the charge is in relation to an older child and did not take place in the nursery settin.

Obviously it is a heinous crime to have committed and the fact it relates to an older child and did not take place in a nursery doesnt mean this man should be anywhere near children. Clearly he presents a risk to all children.

However this is incredibly weak evidence in support of your argument.

We are in agreement that children need to be kept safe from abuse.

However I firmly believe that children need to be protected from ALL and any staff members who may be potential abusers, regardless of gender identity and biological sex. Insisting that trans women are an automatic threat serves only to overlook the fact that women can also present a threat.

Ah yes you cherry picking parts of my post to try to suggest a point I clearly did not make - in a context other than that implied- good one.

Im interested- are you deliberately obtuse or just trying to bully me?

Do you actually READ and understand the facts of ANYthing?

Anyone with a modicum of intelligence can see that I was in no way defending him, as I said:

Obviously it is a heinous crime to have committed and the fact it relates to an older child and did not take place in a nursery doesnt mean this man should be anywhere near children. Clearly he presents a risk to all children.

I simply dismantled why this example , that you had put forward, didn't actually support your argument that all trans women present a huge and demonstrable risk to children.

As there is little real fact to support your stance you are now resorting to disparaging me and assuming my position on other trans issues.

I have at no point said anything about trans women accessing women's only spaces. My points have all been relating to the OP which was an AIBU that they felt uncomfortable with trans workers being employed in nurseries.

FWIW I completely agree that women deserve safe spaces and that "women only" spaces should exist.

I also believe that there should be separate safe spaces for trans women, trans men and men. I believe everyone has a right to safety and separate spaces can help achieve that.

Being an advocate for all people to be afforded equity and the same freedoms and safety doesn't mean I am a failure to women.

Just because women are an oppressed group, that doesnt give us the right to oppress others, or insist that we are more deserving of protections than other marginalised groups.

I am pro humans. I am pro people not harming others.

I am pro safety and freedom from oppression for all.

I am pro ensuring systems are fair and just and protect the safety of all.

I am pro facts and evidence, not hysteria created from fear of difference and lack of understanding .

I think if you’re not comfortable with any aspect of a childcare centre you remove your child. I wouldn’t be happy if gender were being presented as a real, innate thing instead of as the social construct it is. Otherwise the safeguarding should remain unchanged and workers shouldn’t be alone with children.

It’s a bit surprising that there are two when I would have thought the number of trans ppl is very low already, and the number working in childcare surely even lower.

You did sound quite unhinged about the testosterone gel though……….menopausal women work in childcare and presumably just wash their hands after applying oestrogen in the morning.

Do you think it’s abusive to imply to small children that they can change sex, when it’s impossible? I think it is!

That bit stood out to me as an interesting point for reasons that I explained - I have never (and never heard of) experienced arousal from the clothes I was wearing.

Nothing in the rest of your post changed the meaning or context of your claim so I thought it worked quite well as a standalone point. You write quite long posts so I’m not going to pick through every point in each post as that would take a long time (I think you need a lot more work on your stats for eg).

Odd that you jump straight to an insult and an accusation of me bullying you for asking a simple question. I am not bullying you but would appreciate an answer to my question as I am genuinely interested to understand your feelings and experiences in arousal by clothing and whether you think wearing such clothing is acceptable in a childcare setting.

Its interesting that you failed to identify me as a biological woman from my username that explicitly references I have these common conditions that affect at least 190 million women and girls worldwide

anyone can be a male or female on here, no way of checking from a user name which I think was the other posters point

dd has both of those conditions and i wouldn’t have made that connection…neither would she

You did sound quite unhinged about the testosterone gel though……….menopausal women work in childcare and presumably just wash their hands after applying oestrogen in the morning.

Education of young women taking excessive amounts of testosterone is very patchy at best. Many of them use private and totally unscrupulous suppliers that are unlikely to provide clear guidance on the health issues likely (by the nature of what they are doing).

Even nursing organisations have pushed advice that it is acceptable for women to take testosterone while pregnant and academics have argued that we are too focused on normal foetal outcomes (ie healthy babies) and women should be allowed to take testosterone when pregnant.

This unbelievably cavalier approach to health issues is quite likely to translate into carelessness with things like testosterone gel and harm to babies in childcare. Enough cases have occurred generally (not specifically taking hormones for appearance/trans purposes) to know the harm of an 18 month old baby showing signs of puberty.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4851765-this-is-outrageous-medical-paper-argues-that-wanting-healthy-undeformed-babies-should-be-queered

Just because women are an oppressed group, that doesn't give us the right to oppress others, or insist that we are more deserving of protections than other marginalised groups.
Our mothers and grandmothers had to fight hard to gain our rights and protections. We are not giving up those rights to men doing cosplay.

Defending our rights is not oppression.

OK, taking you at face value, you are seriously saying that you have never experienced arousal wearing lingerie or a sexy outfit?!!

The next sentence after the clothing I said
"The key point being AT appropriate times/situations!"

The very first sentence of that post was:
Noone should be aroused or wearing any clothing they feel aroused in - whether working with children or in any job!

Which women's rights are you defending in this situation?

How does a trans woman working in a childcare setting impinge on women's rights?

Implying HOW exactly? By merely existing?

I was quoting your general modus vivendi. Don't try to deflect with whataboutery.

I am genuinely trying to understand how you've got to this conclusion - None of my posts or views are saying or implying that women's rights and protections should be given up.

Safety for everyone should be a universal right. Do you not agree?

Yes. They are choosing to pretend to young children that you can change sex. They are dressing as the opposite sex. That’s a choice. They could dress as their own sex but choose not to.

Those trans women are not oppressed. Where is the oppression? They have the same rights as every other man.

Riiiiigggghttt

If you’re fine with people choosing to imply to small children that you can change sex - when you obviously can’t - that’s fine, but so many parents would disagree with you and would remove their child. Go woke, go broke.