I just wouldn’t allow my child to do that… AIBU

[Dumbo18]

2 very strong willed kids who don’t really care about consequences and can get very emotional - angry, sad, happy just big emotions really. We often find daily life can be a battle especially with the 4 year old (7 year old can be just as bad) not really looking for advice as I’ve read countless threads on the subject so have seen and tried it all but here is where I don’t know if I am being unreasonable (maybe more am I missing something) 4 year old was refusing to brush teeth at bedtime, had to be done not an option especially as she had cake for pudding. Would absolutely not do it and I could hear in my head lovely people off this site saying well I just wouldn’t have that she would have no choice etc and it got me thinking how on earth would you just not have it?? Force her mouth open- absolutely not. Refuse to read her a book- tried, no tv in the morning- tried, calmly explaining why it’s important- tried, shout- tried. She brushed them in the end so not looking for advice more just an answer on if you say I wouldn’t allow that what is it that you do? Not only with teeth brushing but daily life. I think it’s easy to say I wouldn’t allow that when you are the parent of a child who does what they are asked, responds to consequences etc.

I have a child with adhd.

we got strawberry toothpaste. Stickers lots of stickers for doing stuff.

tooth brushing - lots of novelty toothbrushes replaced very very frequently. Toothbrushes that sang songs. Me singing a song.

then, going up the coercion scale:
me brushing them
me holding hands down and dad brushing thdm
me rolling her in a towel so hands and feet enclosed and sitting on her (not hard) and doing them, while dad tried to make sure she didn’t bite me.

they were not done properly every day but we had a bloody good go,

They need to know you mean it, I was a very relaxed mum (mostly), but if I took a certain tone they knew I wasn't playing and would do what I said no consequences required.

I am mum of a very non-compliant child (ASD, ADHD, PDA). I pick my battles. But if it's one of the things that falls into my 'must be done' category, we just don't move on until it's done. Teeth is one of those things - if I ever on a single occasion had let her skip brushing her teeth then we'd have a giant fight over it every time but she knows it's going to happen no matter how long it takes and that yes if it comes down to it I will hold her down and brush them for her against her will. I've only had to do it like that a couple of times because she knows I mean it when I remind her that no matter what, it will happen.

You've put it much more clearly than me but this is exactly how I do it.

In my experience, people who say they ‘wouldn’t allow something’ have no idea of the realities of parenting a defiant child. Tbf, I’d probably have said it myself if I hadn’t had experience.

By having authority over your children.

My children would be marched to the bathroom and told to brush their teeth by themselves or I would have to do it for them.

I sympathise.

DS is five and is more manageable and calm now (still mad as a box of frogs, but …) but circa age three felt completely out of control and I read a lot on here about Boundaries and Consequences without any meaningful input as to what this looked like in real life!

Dont let MN be the critical voice in your head, is my opinion.

Have you tried the "When you've done xxx we can do yyy" trick?

So something like "When you've cleaned your teeth you can choose a book for me to read to you/watch 10 minutes of TV" or whatever you think will be an incentive

Can't promise it will work, but it's worth a try!

This is exactly how we’ve done it from day 1. All kids happy to brush teeth independently now

I do autistic dd's teeth as she drops off to sleep - i hold her down and gently brush

No other way works 😞

I found suggesting we brushed each other's teeth helped during that stage!

When dd screamed her head off about toothbrushing it was quite handy, she had to open her mouth!
She'd probably laugh about it now.

thanks everyone for your advice, it’s not really about how can I get my child to brush her teeth - well suppose it’s linked to the question but more along the lines of what thejoyofnc has said ‘by having authority’ I do think some people don’t realise that there are kids out there who don’t respond to your authority or rules or the Mum look as someone has said. I could look at my kids with the most terrifying look and they probably wouldn’t notice 😂 and yes just putting it out there, i still have boundaries and consequences even though they don’t work most of the time. I’m not a pushover

4 yo old was refusing to brush teeth at bedtime, had to be done not an option especially as she had cake for pudding. likely this will be called abusive.. but no more cake or pudding if won’t brush teeth?

So they have no respect for you and do what they want, but still get treats?

I have a 5yo DS with ASD with PDA profile and likely ADHD too. He absolutely hated having his teeth brush until he turned 5. It was a 2 man job, with us having to forcibly brush his teeth which was horrendous. I tried everything - there's a website that sells all sorts of flavour of toothpastes - we spent a fortune. We watched teeth brushing songs on YouTube, tried bribery, books about teeth brushing, consequences of not brushing teeth etc - the turning point was his teacher talking about it with the class in school. He literally went from refusal to asking to brush his teeth all the time. With the help of morrisons berry flavoured tooth paste.
But yeh some things we have to let slide - we have alot of sensory issues with DS - often his clothes don't feel right so we dress him the night before (he refuses to wear pyjamas anyway) - some people will judge us but it makes a massive difference.

We force the issue with our toddler when necessary. Tooth brushing not a choice. I have knelt over his shoulders while he laid on the floor and done it a couple of times. Other times brushed while he’s cried. Generally he has a moan but accepts it.

Same as things like getting dressed. If it’s really really important then yes I will force them.

We let a lot more slide than my parents would have but certain things are worth the battle. I’d rather make that clear now than when he’s bigger, stronger and more articulate.

@OttilieKnackered and that works too until they get bigger. Pretty impossible to get a 5yo to keep clothes on that they don't want to wear.

Me and DS would have a good old fashioned stand off, he got bored and gave in before I did.

No I didn't allow it when DS (ASD) was little. When he refused I would sit in the bathroom with him with my back against the door and say i was happy to wait until he was ready. Then I waited till he got bored and gave in.

Behaviour and a child's understanding of expectations is built up over time, rather than individual instances. Even with several pda children I know, if you establish a clear understanding you can generally manage the situation. It might be you have to adapt your approach, some children respond to firm, others respond to gentle, some respond to reasoning, some to humour.

For example, for dd, firm when she's tired near bedtime would escalate and end in tears, which would help no one and potentially cause teeth brushing to become a bit of a trigger point. Humour works with her, stops any defiance and ends up in her doing what I want her to do. Other children are different and need one of the other approaches.

Most children are pretty compliant.

parent forces the issue a couple of times and they give in.

children with ADHD or autism are not like this. You can take dessert away from them forever and they don’t care. You can threaten to nuke the whole planet and everyone on it and they don’t care.

if you try to force them then depending on the current state of mind of said child they’ll either injure you or themselves.

my child regularly tried to bite me when I brushed her teeth.

I taught autistic kids for going on twenty years.

there is no such thing as “having authority” with these kids. They’ll do it if they feel like it and it’s that simple. All you can do is manipulate the environment so that they want to.

Yes absolutely… or maybe she had cake as we were at her friends birthday party and the Mum handed each child a fairy cake. Now I know she doesn’t listen to me but I’m not about to make an idiot of myself by belting out that my child is not to have cake as she hasn’t been well behaved. I’m pretty sure I’d have been the subject of a mumsnet thread if I’d done that

Ok so having a stand off is and leaving the bathroom is the sort of thing that makes sense when people say they have no choice so thanks! And also yes to humour and making a joke out the situation, that happens a lot