I just wouldn’t allow my child to do that… AIBU

[Dumbo18]

2 very strong willed kids who don’t really care about consequences and can get very emotional - angry, sad, happy just big emotions really. We often find daily life can be a battle especially with the 4 year old (7 year old can be just as bad) not really looking for advice as I’ve read countless threads on the subject so have seen and tried it all but here is where I don’t know if I am being unreasonable (maybe more am I missing something) 4 year old was refusing to brush teeth at bedtime, had to be done not an option especially as she had cake for pudding. Would absolutely not do it and I could hear in my head lovely people off this site saying well I just wouldn’t have that she would have no choice etc and it got me thinking how on earth would you just not have it?? Force her mouth open- absolutely not. Refuse to read her a book- tried, no tv in the morning- tried, calmly explaining why it’s important- tried, shout- tried. She brushed them in the end so not looking for advice more just an answer on if you say I wouldn’t allow that what is it that you do? Not only with teeth brushing but daily life. I think it’s easy to say I wouldn’t allow that when you are the parent of a child who does what they are asked, responds to consequences etc.

You create a general atmosphere in your house from children's earliest days that indicates that you are in charge.
Your voice is firm and you stand by what you say. If you say no to something that is the answer . No amount of moaning, crying bargaining will work.
You clean your teeth and it is not an option. Put up a picture social story that she can follow ie bath , pyjamas on, teeth cleaned, story.
There is no way my children were perfect , they pushed boundaries of course,but they felt safe because they knew what the adults expected and mostly they did it.

Which is why I’m trying to make it a habit now!

A firm voice even now is more likely to whip my ds into a rage than quell him.

The difference is absolutely fuck all to do with parenting, and tones and whatever else.
its to do with whether the child has adhd or not.
so to all the people above who think it’s due to their superior parenting that their child does whatever. It isn’t.

I feel this, I don't actually realise that sometimes there have been occasions where I just won't stand for something - like when we do absolutely have to go to school no matter how long the battle or how late we are but it's not the same as the parents that mean 'I just made them do it with a look or stern voice' because my one child does not care for consequences at that moment in time, only cares for the thing he does not want to not longer be there.
My other DC, I can stand there with a look or a voice and they will generally comply.

I've worked with many children with adhd, pda etc and you're right it is really tough. It is usually possible to find something that works for them most of the time, but it often isn't foolproof.

If you pinch the nose the mouth will open.

Try this app: Disney Magic Timer by Oral-B. It is free and was a game changer for us.

I found ‘authority’ only works sometimes - incentivising is often much more successful and lots and lots of praise - we give stickers, clap etc. and if they do x, they get to chose from y,z. Another thing is 100% consistency. When it’s something that ‘has’ to happen - you cannot give in even once - too confusing for them

Genuine question is there any neurodiversity?
I'm autistic and have ADHD; as a child brushing my teeth before bed was the worst thing ever. Toothpaste tasted different at night because there were "other food flavours" in my mouth from food I'd eaten throughout the day - but I'm the wrong side of 50 so there weren't different tasting toothpastes. I battled with my parents most nights - not because I wanted to be a little shit but because the difference in taste physically hurt me but I couldn't explain. (And honestly I thought it was the same for everyone).
Try a different flavour toothpaste at night, that worked for me as I got older and more flavours became available. I still have a morning and evening toothpaste and toothbrush now!

I think physical force has its place with small children- I've used it for nappy changing, teeth brushing, car seats, medication. Not as a go to response but certainly as a last resort. They grew up knowing that there are times when mummy isnt kidding and This.Will.Be. Worked with the child with asd and the child with adhd, which isnt to say there weren't plenty of battles about other things along the way. But Ive never thought family life was a democracy where everyone gets an equal vote.

No, just to clarify normally brushes teeth fine, sometimes as with other things she decided that wasn’t happening tonight

i have one son with learning difficulties and another oppositional health visitor once said to me .. give them choices when resisting big time .. would you like to brush your teeth in the bathroom or kitchen .. it did work sometimes.. especially if you say creative encouragement like .. who can win ? Imagine all the other boys and girls brushing their teeth … do you think you could do it the best ? Etc etc .. hard when exhausted but … it does end eventually especially if you make it fun or questioning …

Totally disagree. Plenty of great, boundaried parents I know have kids with autism, ADHD and learning disabilities that are beautifully behaved. This fad of ADHD being used as an excuse for children to run feral seems thankfully to be coming to an end.

@Dumbo18 an interesting post. I’m so glad to read you said you wouldn’t force the mouth open. Can you imagine being restrained and having your mouth forced open to have an object forcibly inserted against your will, presumably while already upset. 😢

My child has ASD/ADHD, he's generally better now but I have used whatever physical means necessary to clean his teeth before. Im generally relaxed but this is a non negotiable, he still doesnt like it but will do it now he's 8

But you didn't allow her to not brush her teeth, you obviously kept on trying until she brushed her teeth! You didnt stop at the first hurdle, which is what I think most people assume when they hear about people dealing with challenging behaviour.
It'd exhausting but it sounds like you're doing yout best on the important issues

It's people who were blessed with compliant children but think it's all down to their superior parenting. I could get my first 2 to do anything without much trouble. A couple of tantrums when they were 2 but other than that very well behaved children with consistent routine and boundaries. DC 3 came along, same consistent routines and boundaries but he will not do anything if he doesn't want to. It wasn't until he was 4 that he let me brush his teeth, mouth clamped shut, throwing his head back, hitting out at me.

Honestly DS can be pretty resistant with brushing his teeth and it’s a real ick for me. I just say “we can stand in this bathroom all night if you want but I’d rather read you a story and have a nice night” longest he’s lasted was 23 mins. When DH does teeth and bed he just does it but DH is stricter than me. Sometimes if I really am tired I’ll just say “I’m gonna get your daddy if you don’t let me do it”. Prefer not to do that, but sometimes I’m bloody tired.

We have also told him about the importance of dental hygiene and his uncle (my brother) has told him about having to have metal caps on his teeth. Once he’d seen pics of his uncles teeth he pretty much started brushing straight away.

I'm interested to your solution to a child who repeatedly refuses to have their teeth brushed, when all other avenues have been thoroughly explored. And does your attitude change if it's having a nappy change rather than teeth brushing that's causing the child distress? I've had to pin both of my children down for both activities on occasion...

It's taken two years of hard work to get to clean my child's teeth, complex disabilities mean all the parental authority in the world isn't going to do the trick when you have an older child with the understanding of a small baby but the strength of an ox. Dystonia means his jaw locks shut and fear and stress can trigger his dystonia. His poor, uncoordinated swallow means anything in his mouth can make him gag and aspirate which can lead to pneumonia. There is no reasoning because he doesn't have the cognition to understand what is being said to him so it really has been a journey of learning to trust that teeth cleaning is OK. There are still days when it's not possible to get a toothbrush into his mouth because the distress and trauma it causes just isn't worth it.

Exactly this. You parent in a way that illustrates you’re the adult and that at certain times things are not a choice. It doesn’t mean shouting or being intimidating but it does mean that your children know that they need to listen and follow simple non-negotiable instructions when their parent says so.

Better that than being held down to have anaesthetic for needing multiple teeth out

I’ve been through some very challenging times with my 2 SEN children and many children I work/have worked with. I’ve even called on the health visiting team for advice before. I don't personally think all possibilities have been explored before someone starts doing that to their child. I would be surprised if any gp or other professional would advise to do that.

I have an autistic child who wouldn't clean his teeth and I bought him a lion king electric tooth brush (he is obsessed with the lion king and this has solved the problem). I also used to sing the hey duggy toothbrush song to encourage mine, and dance along, still do sometimes. It helps to find an incentive for them or a way to make it fun sometimes.