I just wouldn’t allow my child to do that… AIBU

[Dumbo18]

2 very strong willed kids who don’t really care about consequences and can get very emotional - angry, sad, happy just big emotions really. We often find daily life can be a battle especially with the 4 year old (7 year old can be just as bad) not really looking for advice as I’ve read countless threads on the subject so have seen and tried it all but here is where I don’t know if I am being unreasonable (maybe more am I missing something) 4 year old was refusing to brush teeth at bedtime, had to be done not an option especially as she had cake for pudding. Would absolutely not do it and I could hear in my head lovely people off this site saying well I just wouldn’t have that she would have no choice etc and it got me thinking how on earth would you just not have it?? Force her mouth open- absolutely not. Refuse to read her a book- tried, no tv in the morning- tried, calmly explaining why it’s important- tried, shout- tried. She brushed them in the end so not looking for advice more just an answer on if you say I wouldn’t allow that what is it that you do? Not only with teeth brushing but daily life. I think it’s easy to say I wouldn’t allow that when you are the parent of a child who does what they are asked, responds to consequences etc.

What will you do as he gets bigger? I work in a complex needs school with chudkren up to 19. Many of them especially the boys are very tall and very stron. There is no way you can pin them down and just do it. My own complex needs child is 9 and still smaller than me and I am trained in safe restraint etc because of my job. I still could not pin him down for his teeth. He is autistic pda, profound and complex sensory needs, tourettes, seizures etc.

We do do them its a process...

In my school btw we do a LOT of work on self care all these things hair cuts teeth, nails gently and carefully supporting students esp when lots of it is sensory issues etc, so they can begin to manage. We have support from OT's etc. There really is not enough support for families imo. It really is not about being stricter, having more authority or just making them.

All my elder 5 kids always cleaned teeth fine really had the odd issue but they have all been easier despite three of them being autistic adhd and then I got my youngest... having 6 kids very much taught me that a lot is down to temperament and needs of the individual child.

It’s not about a one off battle over tooth brushing but consistency from a very young age. Routines. No nonsense tone. No empty threats. I hear parents saying if you don’t stop that we’ll go but they are still there and the child is still playing up. Say what you mean. Also tone of voice seems to bypass some parents. Not shouting but a no nonsense tone. Some parents engage in long waffling explanations and negotiations and sweetie you need to type long conversations.

Lastly, also recognizing when a generally compliant child is just having a rough night (our DC is compliant most of the time and then really fucking raging 20% of the time) and if they are having a really tough day, I will let everything but the most egregious go, knowing that fighting it will get nowhere and we do better addressing behavior on good days. Over time the tough behavior is diminishing and everyone in the household is in less of fight mode, which then makes the tough days easier too.

I found reading the Spirited child really helpful. Also understanding unexpected neurodiversity, my DC is gifted to the point of it being a problem (live abroad so evaluation is done differently) but she tests into the profoundly gifted zone and that means that I cannot parent her in the same way as a kid in the more average zone.

I did have to occasionally physically hold mine down and brush their teeth while they cried/screamed. not nice but didn't happen often as after one occasion just the threat of it was enough. That said I think they are fairly compliant children generally so not sure that's particularly helpful.

All autistic children are different so you can't make sweeping generalisations.

In our case, my DD is diagnosed autistic and DS isn't diagnosed but probably is too. I absolutely have insisted they do important things from when they were little, and I still do even though they are teenagers now. Consistency and following through with consequences are really important. It is not always easy but it is possible.

Mine are both 'high functioning' and I know that there are autistic children for whom this won't work, but it is not correct to say that it doesn't work for at least some.

Sorry I’ve not read the responses from other people but from your own initial post, teeth got brushed in the end which means you’re a good parent and the boundaries and rules you have in place work. Posters that say I wouldn’t allow etc. don’t necessarily have the best route. If you ask my children they would say I’m a relaxed parent but they absolutely know where the boundaries are and respect them, we haven’t got to that point with being strict it’s been about listening and respect from both us and them.

Mine are well aware that while we're fairly relaxed about most things there are certain things that are non negotiable in our house - homework and brushing teeth are the big two. Sometimes the youngest moans about having to do her teeth at night (we do it for her) but relents after I put my serious face on. But if she didnt, I would 100% pin her down on the bed and force her mouth open, yes.

We do a sliding scale of incentives through to holding them down.

Compliant? You get to watch 2 minutes of something like the Hey Duggee toothbrush song while I do it. First consequence is losing that. However, if there's no other option then I will pin the child with my knees, hold their nose with one hand and brush teeth. I remind them throughout that it's my job to keep them safe and healthy, so brushing teeth is not negotiable and must be done. I also do that with medicine.

Someone on here suggested trapping them in the bathroom and waiting them out. That would get you kicked or hit by my 5 year old ADHD DS. He would find that loss of autonomy incredibly hard to cope with. It's better with him to offer an incentive, or to joke him into it, but trapping him would be worse than holding him down. He'd be distressed for much longer and someone would get hurt.

For other things it really depends. We have lots of incentives and consequences, but I also will hold a wrist tightly to keep a child safely with me.

So if they refuse point blank to do their homework, what do you do? Yes, you can impose consequences but ultimately if they still won’t do their homework … it’s then not a non negotiable.

I know I’ve worded that badly but I suppose the point is it can’t be forced.

He’s naturally got a little easier as he’s got older thankfully. The nail cutting is a problem, I don’t know how to overcome that. He doesn’t even have severe SEN and is really well behaved outside of this but yeah, he hates anything ‘self care’ related! The hairdresser is a SEN specialist hairdresser so that’s a win and we don’t generally have to pin him for that. He’s up and down with toothbrushing but will not let a dentist look and never has. Nail clipping is the one, and medication… I’m hopeful as with anything he will grow out of it. He is already powerful though so you have a point.

Good lord yes. I've seen so many children starting fights and and hitting others in soft play places, and there's almost always some useless parent sweetly calling over from a table "gentle hands sweetie!" while the child totally ignores them.

I empathise OP.

Best one I had on here was parents saying "well I wouldn't allow my child to scream and shout."

Erm, how exactly do you stop a child making noise? Gagging them?!

(My children are and always have been very noisy. They are now both in double figures and finally just about able to quieten down.)

My DD1 was easy to parent using a typical consequences form of parenting (a fairly benign approach of threats and bribes). If I hadn't seen other parents around me struggling to get their DC comply, despite being excellent parents, then I would have smuggly thought that I had cracked parenting.

DD2 turned out to be pretty much immune to threats and bribes. With DD1 I would count to 5 and by 2 she was always doing what she was meant to be. DD2 would get to 5 and stare at me, both of us wondering what happened now. I didn't even need to know what would happen at 5 with DD1, we never got there. DD2 is also immune to much of the parenting guidance that's out there. Things like giving a choice of two acceptable options, to give the illusion of choice. She was never stupid enough to fall for that. Like many of the DC mentioned on this thread, she has ADHD and autism. Part of the challenge seems to be that she just doesn't care what we want.

I'm sure we've had judgement before, I've definitely been told that a week with someone else would fix her. Though I think that knowing we've raised DD1 redeems us in some people's eyes. That's a luxury that not all parents of more challenging children have.

They would be marched into their room, plonked at their desk, and one of us would stand over them until they started. We're not shouty parents but our DC know our 'no nonsense' tone means business, and have done from a young age.

They would be marched into their room

How? If they didn’t want to be, how would you actually do this? Would you drag them, wrestle them, physically force them?

one of us would stand over them until they started

If they refused to sit at the desk?

I know it sounds like I’m being argumentative and I’m not. What I’m trying to explain is that you have the luxury of compliance.

I’ve got a 9 year old and cleaning teeth twice a day has been an absolute non-negotiable from her very first tooth. She’s incredibly bright and a fast learner, and yet, despite me never having backed down, still we have a battle the majority of the time. If she hasn’t learnt in 9 years that I mean business and she won’t win therefore there is no point in arsing about, then I don’t think any of the clearly far superior parents out there are going to change that with their death stares and firm tones.

Younger DD is a totally different child. She sometimes requires a “clean your teeth before I count to 3” and she’s usually scrubbing away before I’ve even started counting.

It’s not you or your parenting, it’s the child you’ve got.

We’ve got every flavour toothpaste you could imagine, manual and electric toothbrushes, upstairs and downstairs. We’ve done teeth cleaning in the hallway. I’ve given up caring about how long it takes or how difficult it is. I just take a deep breath, ask which toothpaste and toothpaste combo she wants and prepare for battle. We always get there in the end.

When people say that they just wouldn’t allow it or their child respects their authority they mean they’ve either got a naturally compliant child or a child who responds well to a firm approach and learns from consequences. My tricky one couldn’t give 2 hoots about the consequences, she just finds cleaning her teeth (and getting dressed, and doing her homework) extremely difficult.

there was considerable force(absolutely no harm emotionally or physically)when young enough but repercussions were usually enough, absolutely no treats, sweets or junk unless brushed and reward charts etc.

My mountain was physio when daughter had her Achilles lengthened for toe walking,was only so much I could get her to do and my mum saying (I’d make her do it) really wasn’t helpful,I couldn’t physically put her body in required positions, couldn’t reward, bribe, plead, beg or punish enough and couldn’t batter the blighter.

So I see these sort of tasks as long term things (so like teeth brushing, manners, reading, sleep etc)

They are all ‘nudging’ things.

So you nudge a bit forwards each day/week/month and keep reiterating the same message (this is good for your future!) until they get to the point (maybe around 6-8) where they completely get the message and do the task with minimal resistance.

You can’t go from 0-60 in one evening… but you can stay firm and keep ‘nudging’ in the right direction over many, many weeks “.

People don't understand what it is to have a child who is able to get themselves at risk to avoid something. With mine, I decide how far I'll go. For example, "we will stay in the bathroom until you do it." And then prepare myself for several hours sitting there. (My son is 13 so I can't force him physically). With my son, he could realistically fall asleep in the bathroom, so I'd plan for that. For example, "if you fall asleep, tomorrow you won't have screens until you do it" etc etc. Everything is a fucking huge battle and it costs me many hours. He's been in his dad's house now and I've been doing so much more during the day. I really worry about the resentment that builds up from this kind of behaviour.

Yeah, this would be my approach.

Tomorrow morning it would be:
"Breakfast cereal - there's sugar in that, you didn't brush your teeth, you'll have to have porridge"
No biscuits or cake, nothing with sugar in at all. No cordial, just plain water. Etc

I would be forcefully brushing my 3 yo and I have done. Hands pinned to sides and I force her mouth open.

5yo I would be saying we aren’t leaving the bathroom or I would be saying no stories til it’s done. Over and over again. He would give in as he wants his bedtime story.

other ways…I would be saying no tv or no treats if they don’t do things I want

Also ASD parent.

I don’t phrase it like it’s a choice, and I don’t ask questions if no isn’t an answer I’ll accept.

For example, I never say “are you going in the bath? “I say “it’s bathtime.” If that doesn’t get a response, I just way the word “bath.” And then lead him there. When he was smaller, I’d put him there.

Teeth, is either handing the brush and saying “teeth,” or saying “you or me?” As in, are you doing it or am I.

He runs away, “stop!”, he goes on the road “path,” usually accompanied by “now.”

Either very specific, or very reduced language. No questions when it’s a direction, and yes - some authority in your tone. I never shout at him, because IMO if you’re shouting you’ve already lost control of the situation, but I do have “this isn’t negotiable” voice.

It's not a 'luxury' that we've taught our DC from a very young age that certain things are absolutely non negotiable, so they actually listen when we put out feet down.

Whenever they complain about having to do something like teeth or homework, I always tell them they have two choices - a) do their homework or b) moan for twenty minutes and then do the homework anyway. It's being done one way or the other.

I've got one autistic kid and one that probably isn't autistic but hates being messed with (teeth, hair, nails etc). It's basically relational. I've always bigged up the behaviours I want to see (being kind to your sibling being the main one, amazing how "can sib and I have a biscuit" gets a biscuit when "can I have a biscuit" wouldn't!!)
They know I do compromises when I can, I've even bought them different toothpastes as they have different preferences. When they were 4 we did things like seeing if I could guess what they had for breakfast by checking their teeth (it makes the open their mouth consciously without objecting) and daft stories. As they got older youngest would hate having to brush teeth so I'd stand and supervise, "check" their work or sing a song so they didn't get bored. Youngest would "forget" if not supervised. I said no juice, sweets, biscuits etc for 3 days if you don't brush your teeth. I've only had to do it once, and it worked without meltdowns because I had given fair warning.

How do you mean marched? The child is probably lying on the floor refusing to move.