I just wouldn’t allow my child to do that… AIBU

[Dumbo18]

2 very strong willed kids who don’t really care about consequences and can get very emotional - angry, sad, happy just big emotions really. We often find daily life can be a battle especially with the 4 year old (7 year old can be just as bad) not really looking for advice as I’ve read countless threads on the subject so have seen and tried it all but here is where I don’t know if I am being unreasonable (maybe more am I missing something) 4 year old was refusing to brush teeth at bedtime, had to be done not an option especially as she had cake for pudding. Would absolutely not do it and I could hear in my head lovely people off this site saying well I just wouldn’t have that she would have no choice etc and it got me thinking how on earth would you just not have it?? Force her mouth open- absolutely not. Refuse to read her a book- tried, no tv in the morning- tried, calmly explaining why it’s important- tried, shout- tried. She brushed them in the end so not looking for advice more just an answer on if you say I wouldn’t allow that what is it that you do? Not only with teeth brushing but daily life. I think it’s easy to say I wouldn’t allow that when you are the parent of a child who does what they are asked, responds to consequences etc.

See also school refusers: ‘I’d just put him in the car and take him in’ - oh right, you’d forcibly dress and manhandle your child, and drag them kicking and screaming to the car, resulting in definite injury/bruising? - no you wouldn’t. Ridiculous 1980’s mentality. Some people just don’t get it. We are all in many ways at the mercy of our children's temperament/diagnosis and some people don’t realise how lucky they are and worse put it down to their perceived superior parenting.

I've said that. I was told they definitely wanted to moan first, then they laughed and got on with it 😂

This would work great with a lot of children. My DD however would be hysterical about not being able to have what she wanted for breakfast, yet still would not clean her teeth without a fuss that morning even to “earn back” whatever it was she wanted. And she’s clever. She understand the consequences, she just finds cleaning her teeth so physically unpleasant that she can’t override that even to get what she wants.

No, I’m not letting that one go

They complied; that is a luxury. A compliant child may moan for twenty minutes and then do the homework anyway. A non compliant child won’t. Absolutely not.

Assuming you wouldn’t actually use physical force and drag or wrestle or pummel a refusing child to their room, then they go with you - that’s compliance.

They do the homework with you standing over them - that’s compliance.

And most children do, including mine mostly and we do have non negotiables and rules and boundaries. But I also have worked pretty extensively with kids who have no care and no regard to those rules and boundaries and they will self sabotage themselves no end because they absolutely will not comply with you, even if that backfires on them.

If they're lying on the floor refusing to move straddle them, pin their arms down and brush their teeth.

What would you do, stand over them wringing your hands?

Ahhh so parents just have to TEACH the neurodiversity out of their children, so that they will then listen, is that it? Got it! Thanks so much for the wisdom! 😉

Crazy that @PoppinjayPolly thinks this might be called abusive. I've seen toddlers / preschoolers having half a dozen teeth removed due to decay. Allowing that to happen is abusive. Giving a child a low sugar diet really isn't. Teaching them self care isn't. Having a solid nighttime routine isn't.

This poster was talking about homework not teeth.

But the general principle is the same and I think we know what is meant: that as parents there are things we’ll be lenient about: you want one more story then bed; OK - you want to skip brushing your teeth - not OK. And in most cases that is understood by the child; they might protest but they do know the parent is ultimately in charge.

Some children don’t seem to have that instinctive sense of the hierarchy and sure in some cases parenting is a contributory factor but in others it just seems to be a trait that is present and there.

Kindly, I would question why a child becomes a 'defiant child' in the first place.

They're compliant because they've been taught to comply, from a young age. Our youngest is particularly wilful, so this isn't just us having naturally easy DC. We've worked and worked at it since they were tiny and taught them that some things are non negotiable.

You wait with them until they get up and go do it. Half an hour or 10 hours. If they get up and go to the tv, you turn it off. If they take out toys, you remove them. If they go to bed and lie on top of it, fine. But when they get up same rules apply and they'll be doing it before anything fun happens or you leave the house. It's about who gives up first. It's a much harder hole to climb out of when you've previously let things slide because it was becoming too big of a drama. Generally if you've been consistent since they've been small, they know it's not worth the upset when they'll be guaranteed to still have to do it.

@Dumbo18 - parents who don’t experience it, don’t get it. Please don’t compare your experiences to those of families without such issues. They can’t be compared. Just wanted you to know that it’s not you, it’s super tough, but you’re not alone x

It’s been a while as my son is 24 now but he used to kick off about teeth brushing. I used to wrap him in a towel, lay him on the floor, kneel over and do it for him.. He’d then have a consequence like no tv ect.

Did he allow you to wrap him in the towel?

I think a lot of children and parents get injured in these scenaris

Many reasons. Neurodiversity being a significant factor….

We could go round in circles with this forever.

I wonder how to explain then some parents with a very well behaved and compliant child and another who is the opposite?

Anyone might think children are different <sigh>

Is this a nature verses nurture? I'm one of those parents whose children wouldn't be allowed to behave like this, I don't believe I was graced with especially good kids just they have been taught expected behaviours and as a tough parent I would also march them to the bathroom and send them to bed early and have consequences. So there is no coincidence my children do as they are told.

When I had this with my son I showed them pictures of what rotted teeth look like- not in a mean way- I explained to him the consequences and that if you don't look after your teeth they can start to give you pain in your mouth. For him the 'why' understanding seems to help him. I found a lot of our pushback was when he couldn't see that we weren't just making arbitrary rules.

@Revoltingpheasants they’re really not getting it I’m afraid 😆

This thread is quite an upsetting read - the number of people needing to physically compel their children to undergo something so invasive is quite horrible - it must be horrendously distressing for the children - I am just trying to imagine how I would have felt as a child if my parents had forced me to the floor and sat on me, pinched my nose to force me to open my mouth etc..

Dental hygiene is important, but so is surviving childhood with your mental health intact....

As for those people talking about the atmosphere of unwavering authority they create in their homes - sounds like a miserable and terrifying childhood to me.

My daughter generally did what I asked, because we love each other so she understood that my requests were rational, and she wanted to make me happy (as I did her). No total authority needed - she had a calm and happy childhood.

I have massive respect for parents of children with conditions such as ADHD, and understand that it is a totally different playing field, so I make no judgement there.

But with neurotypical children, you don't need to act like a violent, tyrannical dominatrix to earn their respect. Giving respect tends to get it back.

Oh, that's adorable. You'd "tell" them. OP, presumably it hadn't occurred to you to "tell" your children to do something?

My DC has significant SEN including extreme sensory needs and I have had to compel toothbrushing twice a day, every day, for the last decade. If only I'd thought to just tell her to do it.

@Dumbo18 if you are after strategies then I recommend the PACE approach - Playfulness, Acceptance, Curiosity, Empathy), there's lots about it on the internet. It was developed for children with trauma but it also works for ND children and also those who are plain contrary. Rather than escalate until you're both angry about toothbrushing start with being silly about it (for example a teddy with a silly voice saying "I can't come in your bed if you have stinky dragon breath! Brush your teeth!" or whatever would appeal to your child) and go from there.

Interested to know how this works if you have a job to get to/other children to take to school etc…?

Neither mine nor the OPs children are neurodiverse, so this is irrelevant.

Obviously neurodiverse children are a different kettle of fish.

I would take people who boast about their perfectly behaved children with a pinch of salt. It’s normal for little children to act crazy and then to calm down as they grow up. I don’t think total compliance is a great thing for a child.

Turn it into a game so that it becomes fun.