I just wouldn’t allow my child to do that… AIBU

[Dumbo18]

2 very strong willed kids who don’t really care about consequences and can get very emotional - angry, sad, happy just big emotions really. We often find daily life can be a battle especially with the 4 year old (7 year old can be just as bad) not really looking for advice as I’ve read countless threads on the subject so have seen and tried it all but here is where I don’t know if I am being unreasonable (maybe more am I missing something) 4 year old was refusing to brush teeth at bedtime, had to be done not an option especially as she had cake for pudding. Would absolutely not do it and I could hear in my head lovely people off this site saying well I just wouldn’t have that she would have no choice etc and it got me thinking how on earth would you just not have it?? Force her mouth open- absolutely not. Refuse to read her a book- tried, no tv in the morning- tried, calmly explaining why it’s important- tried, shout- tried. She brushed them in the end so not looking for advice more just an answer on if you say I wouldn’t allow that what is it that you do? Not only with teeth brushing but daily life. I think it’s easy to say I wouldn’t allow that when you are the parent of a child who does what they are asked, responds to consequences etc.

You just insist, and you hold firm on boundaries even when they are being tested

Mine have both been taught to comply from a young age. The 4 year old does. The 9 year old still does not. I mean, she does, eventually (like OPs DC), because I am consistent, but it hasn’t got any easier and the battles aren’t any shorter.

My DS has profound SEND. Some things I’ll let go, some things I’ll find a work around, but not tooth brushing. That’s my one absolute non-negotiable, and if one parent has to pin him down so the other can brush them then so be it. He has a heart condition so good oral hygiene is incredibly important to reduce the risk of myocarditis.

The people that describe their own children as extra defiant never seem to recognise that's their perspective and not a fact. Someone else could just as easily have a more stubborn child but for whatever reason, describes them as run of the mill. They never seem to get that no one disagrees out loud with them because no one is ever going to say to them 'na, I think they're pretty good actually but a parenting class might help if you feel you're struggling with them'

Did you miss the part where I said I would do it for them if they refused?

Parents arsing around with talking teddies and the like is exactly why we have so many children on this thread refusing basic self care. Have some authority over your children.

For clarity, I didn't mean to quote the poster my last comment it attached to. It was in response to someone else's comment.

That’s….literally not what people are saying here.

While neurodiversity plays a part there’s also a lot to be said for different characters, and different levels of maturity and understanding.

My ds is now five and isn’t neurodiverse as far as we know, but he’s always been impulsive, big feelings, trying things much to advanced for him in the playground and then being furious when he can’t do them, difficult transitions, lots of emotion.

He’s generally a lot calmer now but circa age 3-3.5 he was brutal. Cared not a jot for consequences, if you tried anything like a reward chart he’d whine on about the reward incessantly with seemingly no understanding or recognition of the part he needed to play in getting the reward; I despaired. That was a dark period for me in parenting!

I am pleased to say that the only way has been up and he’s been mostly pleasant to be around since three and a half and I would say four plus has been lovely.

Now DD is starting, and she was really lovely as a baby and young toddler. From being two and a half while it’s peppered with many lovely affectionate and joyous moments I’ve also had a lot of whingeing, a lot of tantrums and hitting me which is a stage I thought we’d bypassed but I guess not, general contrariness and need for control (notable anger when I put the cup back in the wrong place) and I have found it hard not to get annoyed sometimes.

If it was straight after school you asked for it to be done rather than waiting to the last minute it'd be fairly unlikely for an overnight battle with no activities, fun, engagement etc to have happened twice.

To be fair, before I had a PDA/ADHDer I also thought that parenting involved 'non-negotiables'. Then DH and I ended up with a kid who could not attend school, and would not brush teeth/ bathe/ wear more than one set of clothing. With enormous effort and education on my part, I've negotiated my way through all these things, apart from school, which remains unworkable.

With teeth brushing, what worked for us was when DS lost several baby teeth in quick succession, and they pretty much all had holes in them. He was absolutely horrified, and now brushes at least once a day, with my support (and pokemon toothbrushes, special toothpaste etc). He went to the dentist recently, and it took three visits to get x-rays done and a professional clean, but himself as an 11 year old was determined to do this, and DH and I (and his amazing dentist) supported him all the way. He has all his adult teeth now, and they are perfect!

In the past, at the point where there was violence and extreme distress, I thought it would be better for him to end up in hospital getting teeth pulled than to for me - an adult - to destroy my relationship with my disabled child by threatening and punishing my way to clean teeth.

It's been a very uncomfortable journey for me as a parent.

And what if the things you were requesting needed to be done in the morning, and you hadn’t got ‘ten hours’ to sit and wait them out…? That’s what I was asking about

Or if whatever behaviour it is, is coming from anxiety.

When I was having a great deal of difficulty with DD, I read a book called 10 Days to a Less Defiant Child (Bernstein). It was really helpful in understanding why some behaviours occur and what strategies you can use.

There's an awful lot of 'but I can't hold the line because my child is EXTRA defiant'.

Anyway I've no actual wish to be arguing with anyone but clearly my opinion has touched a nerve for a few so I'll bow out given I don't really care about how well other people wrangle their kids. Have a nice night everyone

Well in that case I'd be having a conversation with the dentist about alternative approaches to keeping her teeth clean.

You don't say how old your daughter is, but at some point you have to work with them, not just impose your will on them.

It’s exactly this OP. There are some parents who have relatively well behaved children with no neurodoversities who don’t get it at all.

there are even plenty examples on this post “oh, I only need to look at my DC’s a certain way and thy know I mean business”…. Oh fuck off 🙄 there are some children that no matter how they are looked at or spoken to it wouldn’t make a difference. Hits shows how naive they are to life outside of their wee bubble with their angelic children.

my best friend used to sound like
some of the smug posters on here. She’s had 2 children that had ‘typical’ behavioural issues that could be managed by a look, a word of warning or even confiscating a toy. She was very much in the “my child would never…..” camp.

then she had her 3rd and all hell broke lose 😂 all 3 have been parented identically but the youngest won’t do a thing their told, doesn’t respond to any type of consequence. My friend soon lost that smug “oh look at how amazing a parent I am with my perfect lay behaved children that can be controlled by a stern look” 😂😂

I think unless you have a child that doesn’t respond to usual parenting techniques you’ll never full get it

My DD2 will choose the 20 minutes moaning, followed by 20 minutes arguing, every f-ing time. I know it isn't rational. I'm sure she understands that it isn't rational. But there we are, her ND brain doesn't always make the right choice. You can be smug that your DC make the right choice, but please don't think that other parents haven't tried every trick in the book to get theirs to do the same.

Similarly, she'd love at 10 hour toothbrushing stand-off. She will do almost anything to avoid going to bed. She will then get too little sleep, because getting up for school isn't optional. She will then be even harder to deal with.

Interesting you bow out at the point where you’re asked to explain how you’d overcome the small practical issue of waiting ten hours for a child to give in when you have other responsibilities ☺️

but yes have a nice night one and all!

You asked about homework. You're clearly not liking answers beyond 'oh yeah you're right. I'd shrug my shoulders and leave them to it'.

For your follow up gotcha, if it was a non negotiable like homework or teeth brushing or in this house, clean pants and clothes before going out we'd sit it out for the 10 hours if we had to. If it wasn't a non negotiable then I'd negotiate.
Enjoy the rest of your night.

“I wouldn’t allow that” usually just means “my child complies eventually.” ("and that makes me a better parent than you")

Not all children do. Some won’t, however calm or consistent you are, or how much guidance you’ve read (and I’ve read plenty).

So what does “not allowing it” actually look like in practice? Physically pinning them down? Forcing it while they’re distressed?

At what point does that cross a line? And what about when they’re bigger, stronger, and you’re the one getting hurt?

Don’t assume this comes from a lack of boundaries or effort. Most of the time I get things done the way I want — but it’s not as simple as “I wouldn’t allow that”. It's a bloody art form.

No it was just a cross post. I have answered. Night night.

So glad someone has said this. Thought I was in a parallel universe then. I can't believe what Ive been reading!

I completely understand and I learnt a long time ago that with my kids it’s not about having authority over them - I literally can’t - it’s about having a really really good relationship with them (built up over years) and a lot of patience and persistence. I cannot go head to head with my daughter. It just doesn’t work with her. And I’m totally ok with that. We find other ways. Also she has pathological demand avoidance. Since learning about that, my life and parenting ways makes A LOT more sense to me. Good luck OP

So why the nasty opinion you originally stated?

No, I didn't miss that, although it sounded pretty hypothetical, and as though you have no idea of what that actually involves - I'd be amazed if you've had to do that more than once if ever, and probably only with a toddler. Pinning a tween child with one arm, while they sob and thrash wildly, and you force the toothbrushing with the other arm, is really traumatic for both parent and child, and that is what some of us here with children with disabilities are having to do. No, children like that don't "just learn they have to" - they just get more and more distressed. That's before we get to hair-brushing and wearing socks and other things that cause extreme sensory reactions. And yet this is a child who is extremely compliant, polite and well behaved in other areas.

Will I "arse around" with a teddy so that I don't have to cause her that level of distress twice a day every day? Yes. And if you were in my shoes I guarantee you would too.

Well, yes and no.

I do actually know what you’re saying here (I think.) If I say to my ds ‘it’s time for a shower’ and he says NO, I don’t want to (which he did tonight) I know I can get him up there. It might take some cajoling / threats / consequences / persuasion / bribery (depending on mood), it might take a while and it might be difficult but yep, he’ll be having that shower.

But if he was absolutely determined he wasn’t having a shower then there would be very little I could do about it: if his will was so strong and needed to work against my wishes then what do you do?

I am not saying children like this are common but they do exist. I can remember years ago being in a room with a girl who had absolutely lost it - screaming, flailing, tears, hysteria - over nothing, something like being asked to pick up some rubbish she’d dropped and she refused and the situation escalated. Her nose was dripping like a tap: offered her a tissue and NO. She’d rather wipe her face on her sleeve and have a snail trail of snot than accept anything at that stage. It didn’t hurt us, only her, but accepting a tissue would be akin to an alliance or friendship and she needed us at a distance.

Logic doesn’t come into it with some children; it isn’t if I do X I get nice things; if I do Y bad things happen so I’ll do X because I want to please. For some children the desire to please doesn’t exist.