Sons Sporting Ambition Thwarted?

[GatheringAllTheMoss]

My son has dreamt of becoming an England player in his team sport (not football) for many years. He's reached county level which is fantastic but he's unlikely to go further. Not through lack of talent but more through the lack of opportunities and the advantages that others have. Out of 40 children at county level the overwhelming majority are at private schools. 10 from one school. You can count the number of state school boys on one hand and one is my son.

Private schools start this sport in year 3, state pupils are lucky to get the chance to play, those that do start in year 7. Private schools play at a higher level e.g. private school will field their B team against sons state school A team. The coaches and facilities are at a higher level too.

At club level my son plays with the men's team not with his age group and there is no development route. I can move him to another club but the chances are high that it will be dominated by the private school boys so my son won't be chosen for the team.

I always appreciated that talent would only take him so far and I was willing to do whatever was needed to get him to that point. Just devastated by the reality of what he faces to succeed and that I never really appreciated this.

It’s a digression but I guess that the way conversations flow…. like a pp, I too am horrified by the competitiveness from such a young age. I know I’ll sound like an old fart, but when I was young, I don’t think there was anything competitive until secondary school. My DS is 7 and a late starter at wanting to play football. We’re struggling to find anywhere because everyone else has been training to two or three years and are now playing matches every Saturday against other teams in some league structure. His peers (and their DP!) are dealing with rejection and all sorts from such a young age. This is the local football team youth set up where everyone round here goes. The local cricket club run on a selective basis from U9. It feels like if you didn’t start as soon as you were out of nappies, it’s impossible. How has it ended up like this?

I think a third in Paris olympics were privately educated at secondary school. So most state yes, but private disproportionately represented. I read that if Millfield were a country they would be 18th in the medal table. I think it's great we have schools supporting sporting excellence in the absence of government doing that (I think they should be and it is happening in some areas but not all). Talented children would be able to access scholarships but there are clearly pathways for state schools too given that 2/3 are state educated. Despite what people think private schools often share their facilities and host sports events for state schools too.

Are you in England? The governing body stipulates all league matches are to be played on synthetic pitches.

The schools and the local team still play hockey on grass.
Are you somewhere other than England? England Hockey do permit some school and recreational matches to be played on grass though in the 15 or so years that my DC have been playing hockey I don't think they have ever played on grass at any level. But a club playing on grass - really? E H rules state that competitive outdoor matches other than introductory level have to be played on 2G astroturf, either sand or water based. You certainly can't play league matches on anything else currently, though there is some research going on into alternatives due to environmental concerns, particularly around water usage.
Either way, whilst I am sure you can still have a lot of fun playing hockey on grass and learn the basics, learning the skills necessary to progress as a player in the modern game is, if you pardon the pun, a whole different ball game. A young player without access to a proper hockey pitch will be at an absolutely massive disadvantage if they want to take the sport seriously. Given the shortage of such surfaces in state schools and the increasing tendency for community artificial pitches to be 3G that does mean that better off independent schools or sports clubs in more affluent areas which can afford to maintain a variety of pitches are more likely to produce high level players.

If it’s rugby OP, you could look for a private academy to increase the amount of pitch time your dc is getting. Elite Rugby Academy and eggchasers are a couple of examples. At our club these academies offer a great opportunity for those players who aren’t getting any rugby at school. I’m sure hockey does similar. As a family we’re involved in both sports at grass roots level but luckily our clubs are very community focussed and try to offer the sport to all comers, with financial support offered if needed and free coaching/kit given to local state schools. As a consequence we find talent which may fall through the gaps at other local clubs in ‘posher’ towns who draw much more from private schools.

If it is rugby, hockey or cricket, there are about a million clubs around with training sessions. Most sporty holiday camps offer all from year 3. Yes, a bit more if a pain to get a child to training, but not exactly inaccessible.

Unlikely. Polo isn't offered at most (if any) private schools.

My guess is hockey.

I find this a quite interesting read because sometimes during the private vs state debate when people say it isn't just about small class sizes and grades but for access to the arts and sports people are frequently told that sport can be accessed by state school attendees by joining clubs. Now apparently they can't.

Speaking for cricket here.

Yes you can access coaching and private clubs BUT this is not the same as having access to the county/ regional coaches who teach in the private schools in the area.

Our county specifically recognises this in-balance and is making some attempts to redress it.

If the sports governing body and counties recognise it I'm not sure on what posters on Mumsnet say that it doesn't exist!

https://resources.ecb.co.uk/ecb/document/2024/10/21/81de64ad-0f4a-4892-a4a7-1d4a979cd07d/ECB-State-School-Action-Plan-FINAL.pdf

How old is the child in question - because I am concerned about them playing with adults. What are the governing body of the sport guidelines on this sort of situation?
I am probably going to upset you OP because if your child is big enough and old enough to play with adults then if he is really as talented as you think it is most likely he would have already been talent spotted. I am a qualified UKA coach with a son who was an elite athlete and have coached other sports to county level. Being county level is not a guarantee of ongoing ability.

If it’s rugby you can’t play with adults until you’re 17. With hockey it’s 14. I think cricket is younger still.

My Dd is 14 and has been asked to play hockey for the adult team at the club she plays with. She is taller than me and the same size and speed as most of the women she would be playing with. Would be different for a contact sport like rugby I guess. She hasn’t actually done it yet as she has too many other commitments!

Absolutely disagree.

There are quite a few hockey clubs where I live. Available for kids of all ages. I never knew some people considered it private school territory only.

It’s down to availability in the location you live in I suppose.

I think it's a bit more complex than that. Of course you can do most sports to a good level outside of school in most areas. There is bound to be some variation from place to place though. But for most people that is absolutely fine. I think the OP was talking about elite pathways with a view to playing at national level though, which is a bit different. Some sports clubs may be able to support youngsters aiming for that level, but certainly not all. Nor can all private schools of course - they don't all have better facilities or staff than state schools. In fact small private schools may have more limited sports options because of small numbers - that's certainly the case where I live and one of the (many) reasons we chose state. But particular private schools with strong pedigrees in specific sports will of course help children who aspire to careers in those sports. My DS has a friend who went to an independent school where one of the PE teachers was also a coach on the national age group squad for his sport. The friend was coached by this teacher multiple times a week at school, on top of the official national squad sessions and had state of the art facilities at school. It's hardly surprising that the squad contained a disproprtionate number of pupils from that school is it?
However I don't think it as simple as going to private school leads directly to better sporting achievements. For a start, I think it's specific schools not private schools in general that are likely to have an impact plus you need to consider the likelihood that parents of children with those particular talents actively choose those specific schools and also that the schools seek out talented pupils. So you may have a concentration of talented athletes in one school without it being 100% the school that has made them that way. Plus it is hard to unpick the effect of school vs the effects of parental wealth. Parents who can afford to educate their children privately, especially at one of the better known schools are also likely to be able to afford to support their child's sporting aspirations in other ways - best equipment, expensive camps in the holidays, travel when and wherever needed and so on. Better resourced families are able to support their children more easily in many ways.

A third of GB Olympians in 2024 went to private schools, as against 7% of the general populations. It's a similar story with the cricket and rugby teams. Football is the outlier: about 5% of British players in the Premier League went to private schools and the vast majority of those had their fees paid for by their clubs. The number of PL players from families who had the wealth to pay for private schooling is extremely low.

*Parents who can afford to educate their children privately, especially at one of the better known schools are also likely to be able to afford to support their child's sporting aspirations in other ways - best equipment, expensive camps in the holidays, travel when and wherever needed and so on. Better resourced families are able to support their children more easily in many ways^

i remember reading years ago that Zara Phillips had the best trainers and had the best ponies available to buy.

How does anyone private school or not compete with that? There will always be people with more whether that’s location, ability or accessibility.

Well horse based sports are another level! There is no way to get into that without some real cash available to you.

These sort of sweeping statements are just wrong.

Again it depends on location. I grew up in a rural area and i knew many people who hunted with borrowed ponies and represented their (state) school in competitions.
They absolutely didn’t come from a money background.

i live in a rural area and my DC have competed at national pony club level. I can see no way that they could progress to the higher echelons of the sport without more money behind them.

My child has started swimming lessons at a local and internationally renowned private school that specialises in sports. They're perfectly average, we're there for the convenience of the lesson timings Vs our local leisure centre.

Even at a general public lesson level, the difference is HUGE.

I have to say this is the new precent for all sports. Even football. The kids with the parents who can take them everywhere, can afford the holiday camps and the 1-1s are the ones getting ahead. Granted football talent ID is not reliant on private schools in the same vein, but sadly, money really really does seem to trump talent.

You get the odd person breaking through despite great adversities, but you need a backer (like a parent that can invest time) and the resources to get the edge/access the better coaching and facilities.

@Sportymumalwayswashing is absolutely right though. Effort Vs reward playoffs are tiny. But I understand how gutted you are to give your child everything you can and it not be "enough".

Hoping against the odds your child does well.

Speaking for cricket - yes, there are loads of clubs around with training sessions. For the state school kids, this is all the cricket they get to do. The private school kids join these clubs as well, but also are in their well trained school clubs with excellent facilities (often much better than the other clubs) and with all year round nets practice that isn’t as widely available for many clubs. So they get at least twice as much cricket time, if not more.

Completely agree. There are a lot of efforts to up the training and higher level coaching options open to state school students, our area does a lot. It still doesn’t level the playing field but it does help.

I think in 2019, 43% of the England men’s team had been privately educated, and by 2025 it is 59%, so it’s getting even more elite. There’s a lot of effort to try to give better opportunities to the state school kids but ours did essentially no cricket at school (maybe 2 weeks a year?) but their friends at private schools have it all year round.

The ones who are good get noticed at club level and put on the county pathway. Local clubs can nominate players to trial for county and they can progress from there.

Yes I know. There’s a lot of effort put into this. But it’s still harder for them to get to that point, and they’re competing against all the other children with all that additional training built into their school calendar and access to school matches too. It’s absolutely possible but it’s much harder. And (although this isn’t the OP’s point, as her child is already keen and highly involved) there are tons of potentially excellent kids who would never even try it beyond a couple of weeks at school per year, and unless their parents suggest they join a club, wouldn’t know to give it a try.

A few years ago, it was calculated that 45% of the county players who were educated in the UK were privately educated. It absolutely has a recognised and huge impact. Not to say it’s impossible for state school children - but definitely a lot harder.

But even for relatively cheap sports, like swimming, you still need a lot of parental support and a bit of cash.

Money for the pool and coaches.
Someone to support you getting up and to the pool at crack of dawn.
Travel to competitions, hotel and food costs.
£££ swim suits

Totally out the question for someone who's barely making ends meet or who doesn't really want to be dragging siblings around the country every other weekend.