Sons Sporting Ambition Thwarted?

[GatheringAllTheMoss]

My son has dreamt of becoming an England player in his team sport (not football) for many years. He's reached county level which is fantastic but he's unlikely to go further. Not through lack of talent but more through the lack of opportunities and the advantages that others have. Out of 40 children at county level the overwhelming majority are at private schools. 10 from one school. You can count the number of state school boys on one hand and one is my son.

Private schools start this sport in year 3, state pupils are lucky to get the chance to play, those that do start in year 7. Private schools play at a higher level e.g. private school will field their B team against sons state school A team. The coaches and facilities are at a higher level too.

At club level my son plays with the men's team not with his age group and there is no development route. I can move him to another club but the chances are high that it will be dominated by the private school boys so my son won't be chosen for the team.

I always appreciated that talent would only take him so far and I was willing to do whatever was needed to get him to that point. Just devastated by the reality of what he faces to succeed and that I never really appreciated this.

Most NGBs have talent development pathways because they want to be able to select from the widest possible pool. Make sure you’ve read up on the website what that is. As per your last post, as long as he’s enjoying it and sticks at it, most school boys will drop out long before National u19 u21 whatever the level is.

I was just coming on to say that kids from private schools are over-represented in chess. Most schools don't have a teacher with the knowledge to run a chess club, so it has to be external and paid for - and private schools are much more likely to have enough parents willing to pay. Once you get good there's travel/hotels etc if you go around the country to pay - it all adds up.

I think many people are discounting just what a huge impact local sports clubs have on grassroots talent identification and development. Yes public schools have great facilities and specialist coaches but more often then not its the volunteer coach at the local club who takes on any kids who fancy a go who are the ones who see potental and then light a fire under it insofar developing the basic skills, and opening doors to the various pathways to the next level and explaining to parents what the commitment is to get there. Read any sports autobiography and the chances are they will reference the under 12s coach at their local club who encouraged them to take the sport seriously.

I coach at my local rowing club, we have a juniors section that is mostly made of the demographics of the area. Yes there are a few private school kids who got an earlier introduction to the sport but most of the kids who have passed through us and gone on to GB representation and Henley finals were kids from the local comp. Even the ones who did not get to GB level ended up with sports scholarships to a US University. Not bad for the kid from the local estate who was tempted to sack in school at 16.

Football is dominated by state school players though. I think about 95% in Premier league. What's to stop your child putting in the additional hours outside of school. State schools have a shorter school day so it's very doable.

OP it sounds like the bigger issue is the outside school club you've got him playing in. You as a parent might have to make a few sacrifices to get him to a bigger/better club (might not be as convenient for you!) as it sounds like the one he is playing for is poor if they don't have dedicated youth teams and grass roots development. Move him to the better club where the private school kids play as then he'll be challenging himself against them all the time and improve.

It sounds like you think the opportunities should all just be dropped in his lap and you underestimate the sacrifices that might have been made for those kids - maybe they are a private school because they started the sport young, worked hard and got themselves a sport scholarship, maybe mum and dad are working two jobs to pay the fees so that their child can access that superior coaching and facilities?

Is there anything you can do like take on a second job to pay for some one on one coaching?

If it is cricket, then the representation from fee paying and independent schools massively out ways that of state schools.

My DS’s friend has played cricket since he was in primary school. He ended up representing his County and he was the only state educated player on the team. All the scouts regularly visited the fee paying schools and some of them even coach at them. They get far more exposure to ‘the people involved at County and professional level’ than state school children.

He showed a talent for bowling at a young age, so his parents paid for private coaching for him, outside of his local cricket club.

He literally was spotted at a state schools tournament that one of our independent grammar schools had offered to host - due to their superior facilities. Their cricket coach was involved at County level and spotted him. It was literally luck that this happened and thank goodness it did. His parents were absolutely made to feel like they didn’t belong there though when he started as part of the County team. There was a huge amount of snobbery towards ‘the boy’ from the state school.

He went onto play County cricket, then signed onto their academy and now has a full professional contract.

It is possible to make it as a professional in a world full of privilege, but it’s a tough journey full of sacrifices, a little bit of luck and a lot of snobbery.

This is one of the things that gets me about sport.
There is a massive focus in the UK on competitive sport, yet very little on recreational sport.

Recreational sport is probably every bit as important as competitive sport. From a fitness, confidence and social aspect.

There is also the downside of competitive team sports, kids getting dropped out of teams because they aren't good enough and then trying to find a new team leaving old friends, trying to make new friends.

Same goes for music and acting.

Presumably that was when hockey was still played on grass? Unfortunately moving to Astro, (pitches cost £650k to £1m) has meant it is a hugely private school
dominated sport now.

The sporting pyramid is pretty brutal and everyone eventually finds their level be it national level competition through to participating socially at their local club. Down my club a bunch of retired types jump in a boat twice a week and row to a riverside pub a couple of miles downstream, have a few drinks and then row back!

Haha it's be because the state schools around here all do cricket, and cricket was the only other club I could think of lol! You're so right, I was having a peri moment 😂

Some will find their level, others will simply walk away never to return.

And that's what needs to change in sport is keeping it fun for longer.

I wouldn’t agree that football is needs blind. If you live where I live, there is one professional academy 1.5 hours drive away. It’s hardly accessible.

OP I feel frustrated about this too. Cricket and rugby in my case. I have two really sporty kids & it does cross my mind what opportunities they could be exposed to at private schools. Our local private school has weekly coaching from our local professional rugby club…

Most people on this thread seem happy with the idea of selection when their child is selected in, but less so when they are selected out.
When they are selected in it is as a result of raw talent, hard work and determination. When they are selected out it is because the other children are benefitting from some kind of privilege.
Never any thought to those born without the privilege of bodies that work, to those born into families without the privilege of supportive solvent parent (s), to those living in isolated rural areas or depressed mill towns where you can on,y dream about the sort of facilities available to Londoners.

I think the parent’s attitudes are what makes sports fun or not.

Some parents are desperate for results. They want their own time and effort to pay off.

I have seen parents push unwilling kids to do a sport whether it’s to fulfil their own dreams or whether it’s to see results for the time they have put it themselves.

I have seen young children crying going to early morning tennis lessons before they start their school day. I have seen naturally talented kids drop out because the entire focus is on winning. I have seen kids crying with tears running down their faces as the coaches (mostly their parebts) push them harder and harder. I have seen kids burst into tears when they lose. The parents often like to say it’s because the kids are so passionate or the kids put pressure on themselves when it is blindingly obvious to everyone watching that the kids are performing for their parent’s approval.

It is often quite distressing to see. Sports should be about having fun and exercise not putting pipe dreams in kid’s heads and setting them up for disappointment and failure. .

Excellent post.

If you want to get your ex to a good level in sport you always need to do it through clubs/county, state schools so not have the resources. The private schools are being funded better and crucially have longer days to allow for extra practice, it’s these extra hours that means they are better. The good news is if they are talented they can progress but potentially a little older breaking through, my dc playing internationally despite state education, but is a bit older for first match

My son’s private school doesn’t do football until Y9. Hockey, cricket, rugby, rowing yes. Football no. I laugh at their snobbiness.

Andrew Agassis book is very good on this point. He and his elder brothers were absolutely brutalised with training regimes by their father, chewed up and spat out. He hated tennis but realised he literally had no other career options so stuck at it. Steffi Graff was the same, pretty sure they let their kids choose their own paths.

For some sports there is this barrier to entry. I would look at getting him into private school on scholarship, but be aware that if he is 15/16 its unlikely to make alot of difference and there may be a bit of "hazing" that goes on. We had this in out family with a sport that sounds similar, with someone with alot of talent but when he went to a specific private school on scholarship he stood up for himself and left because of the so called "hazing" by those who had been at the school years. This also spread into the nation juniors and seniors team and he wasn't up for that so went in to see the head and also told him in no uncertain terms why but nothing has changed.

Is it snobiness or just the fact that the school can offer the facilities and coaching of those other sports (expensive astro pitches for hockey, large groundsman maintained cricket pitch, boat house and quarter of a million quids worth fleet). In my experience the local comps used to regularly smash the private schools at football anyway!

I'm glad that was your experience, but did you not find you were in the minority? In my experience, hockey both at grassroots level, and national governing body level, tries very hard to be inclusive but still remains a pretty middle class sport overall. One of my DC was on the England Hockey talent pathway whilst at school and now plays at University and I'd say the majority of their peers were from private school and most of the remainder were like my DC - pupils at well regarded state schools with reasonably well off parents. It's not a sport that is easy for kids in inner city comps to access. If you look at the national teams I think you'll find the vast majority are privately educated. England Hockey certainly recognise the issue and are, to their credit, taking steps to try to address it, such as now running a specific state schools championships as well as the long standing schools championships which are always won by independent schools.
But I think it will be very hard to really even things out. In the days when hockey was played on grass maybe it would have been easier, but these days not that many state schools have access to artificial pitches and if they do they tend to have a 3G pitch for football rather than astroturf suitable for hockey. So lots of schools now either don't play hockey at all, or if they do, it's on an unsuitable surface mwaning the pupils are not learning in the same way as those with access to a proper hockey pitch. There's only one state school in our area with a hockey pitch and one of the few local clubs plays there. Another nearby hockey club which was in a fairly deprived area closed down a few years ago because they used a council run astro pitch which was replaced with a 3G for football, completely removing the option of hockey for anyone in that area unless they have the means to travel to another club. Such a shame as it was a great club that had produced some very good players over the years, not from the "traditional" hockey background. I've trailed round a lot of hockey clubs in different parts of the country with my DC over the years and whilst obviously they are not all awash with money, I'd say the majority are in fairly affluent areas and there are usually more high end cars than old bangers in the car parks.
I don't think that any athelete who reaches a high standard in their sport has it easy. Whatever your background you need to have both talent and work extremely hard to excel. I wouldn't look at any of the current England hockey teams and say that they don't deserve their success or that they only got where they did because they had rich parents. They are all talented people who I have no doubt have absolutely worked their socks off. However, there are probably lots of others who have similar inherent abilities and would work equally hard but who simply never get the opportunity. I'm sure it is the same in many other sports. I don't think it is wrong for people to make use of the advantages that they have , in fact I would argue that it is worse to have been given an advantage and not to make the most of it, but we are deluded if we think that everyone has the same opportunity to excel. There will always be exceptions of course - kids with absolutely everything against them who do make it to the very top of whatever field they pursue - but they are rare and usually have truly exceptional abilities. I don't think there is any doubt that it is very hard to excel in any sport regardless of your background but it is even harder for those with less privileges to begin with. I'm not sure there is an answer, but I do understand the OP's frustration.

The schools and the local team still play hockey on grass.

No private schools in the county i grew up in though so it's impossible for them to dominate :-)

I think you’ll find that most young adults in the Olympics etc are from working class backgrounds not private schools.

You haven’t said which sport it is, most talent spotters go to independent clubs and state schools, I know this as my brother is one. I think you just have a downer on the private sector. If he was as good as your saying he could easily get a place under a bursary for one of those schools.