DSis says I'm awful for not letting her give DD14 a smartphone and that my gift for her is ridiculous, outdated and cruel.

[LuckyJadeMember]

DD14 is not allowed to have a smartphone. She uses a flip phone and has a thinkpad as well and is perfectly fine with it. Her birthday is next Sunday.

She likes to listen to music and the radio, but her phone doesn't have a music player so I bought a fiio music player on amazon, this one. It's 50 quid, and a nice blue colour. I also got her a case and screen protector for it.

I know what bands she listens to, so I went and bought some MP3 albums off bandcamp and amazon music, and put them on the MP3 player, and gave her a £100 bandcamp gift card too so she can buy some more music.

I also got her a nice portable canon as the camera on her phone is a bit naff, this one.

My sister met with me today because she wanted to show me what she got for her. It was an iPhone, the latest model. I said that she's not meant to have one, and that she won't be getting it so it'd be best to return it. It ended up in an argument, and DSis left the house angry. She called me later to yell at me and tell me how cruel I am for not allowing her to have a smartphone, and called me 'awful' and insulted my gifts several times.

AIBU?

The naivety is...sweet 😂

She already has a smartphone you just dont know about it, thats why shes unconcerned.

The kids who have dumb phones aren't part of a "movement", its a trend. Like taking Polaroids. Its just an aesthetic.

Stand strong OP, if you DD is not interested why push it. The presents sound lovely and thoughtful that you have bought. You know her better than anyone else. As a mother of 4 adults now, one with an extreme phone addiction, I have seen the demise of his personality, his conversation, his lack of being present in a room. He's 32 and it's shocking especially as he has a child now and barley looks up to acknowledge his beautiful child, his wife is worse . It's very sad 😭

This is ridiculous. Smartphones have a learning curve of about 3,5 minutes sadly, which is why everyone is addicted. She will not be behind in any way.

My daughter is a couple of years older. So much on smartphones I feel is essential for us all to be happy she’s as safe as possible when our and about- life 360 , uber, google maps group messaging so she gets instant responses from friends etc. on top of that when travelling to college she can check train times and cancellations. Group chats were on fire straight after GCSEs , prom etc and she’d have really missed out on everyone discussing everything. Group chats are great at college reminding everyone when assignments are due and when tutors are off so they don’t need to travel in unnecessarily. Ryanair is paper free and you must have a smart phone. She also hates carrying stuff so literally goes out with her phone and her ID tucked in back of it. No way she’d lug around all your daughter’s stuff. I feel bad for her missing out on the group chats but even more I think it’s infeasible to be out without life 360 and Google maps. I assume you also don’t let her go out much? By all means don’t let her have her phone in her room overnight but do let her have one!

Giving a teenager all this other stuff to avoid a smartphone is pretty supreme parental control

I guess it’s up to you, not your sister, but it all seems a bit odd to me in this day and age

it sounds like your daughter may well want a smartphone and your sister knows this

I’d think about it a bit more

This is really interesting. My child is 10 and there is a big movement to stay away from smartphones until 16, everyone is discussing which brick phone to get for secondary or how long they can do without any phone. In fact most schools we are looking at have banned smartphones for the new year 7s. This cohort of parents are much more in line with op’s thinking than the responses.

Get her a phone and if she doesn't use it you know you're right about her not wanting or needing one.
I resisted a smartphone for far longer than most. Now I have one I realise how much easier it's made my life.

I didn’t give my daughter a smart phone until she was 16. She uses it perfectly fine for all the things people say it’s essential for such as bus travel, college info etc. She didn’t struggle to work out how to use it. She didn’t miss out at school.

She did moan at me to get one when she was 14 but thanked me at 16 for letting her grow up without social media when she finally got one. She didn’t miss out, the world didn’t collapse. Honestly, the hand wringing from people justifying their kids having smart phones under 16 is over the top.

Your sister is rude and interfering and you should stick to what you think is right. I’m so glad I did.

Maybe she hasn't asked for one because she knows your views on them, I would be curious as to why she would drop into conversation that "there's a new Samsung out" maybe testing the water/dropping hints? I think i would have to ask her outright. It does kind of sound like her and her two friends are happy being the cool kids that don't conform to all this tiktok nonsense. As for your sister.... it's a very generous gift, but unless your daughter has been moaning behind your back, it's a massive overstep and a potential waste of a lot of money if it is genuinely unwanted. I think you and your sister need to hear from your daughter's mouth that she doesn't want it and then your sister will be satisfied that you're not being an overbearing, cotton wool wrapping, worrywart.

I’m Gen Y - last of the folks who truly lived on both sides of technology - and IMHO I do think your gift is outdated. While I appreciate the anti-smartphone movement is around, it’s certainly an inferior position for teenagers. And the fact is, your daughter isn’t anti smartphone… you are.

I wasn’t embarrassed at having an MP3 player, because when I had one there weren’t any alternatives. Music, camera, photos, utilities and yes the dreaded social media are all accessible in one, very ordinary, place.

Let her have the phone.

This is 100% what I was like as a child. There was no point in asking for certain things in my house as my mum had really strong views and would judge others who had them. I pretended I didn’t want them for an easier life as my mum was quite a tricky person.

I think it is entirely up to you and nothing to do with your sister, but considering she has a dumb phone, a think pad, a camera and a music player, I'm not quite sure what your concern about smart phones is. Smart phones are very convenient because you don't need lots of different devices. The concerning stuff all exists on the internet, which she has access to anyway. She also sounds perfectly sensible teenager who I would trust with a smartphone if she wanted one. She hasn't asked for one though, so it isn't an issue.

So would I, I don't 'get' your objection.

People are so weird with tech. Yes, it makes life easier in some ways. Yes, sometimes it's required. However no 15yo is going to be damaged for life or left behind without one for longer than usual. Kids pick up tech in a snap, it's really not that hard to learn. And any friend worth their salt includes someone regardless of their tech.

I'd also bet good money that for every child who is being left out of a healthy fun group Whatsapp there's at least 2 if not more being bullied, sexually harassed or abused, stalked or radicalized via apps on their phones. The schools themselves are advising to delay smartphones precisely because of what they see on the daily. But I guess "everyone else is doing it..." is still a powerful manipulation tactic.

My kids have had smartphones from age 13. They've been great in some ways (bank apps, after school activities etc), awful in others. Attention span has gone way down. Apps open up friendships yes, but also shut them down via blocking and posting when angry or upset. Little issues blow up unnecessarily because they're still children who find it difficult to step away from the phone. Having access to each other all the time is not always a good thing. We have also found pressure to sext from age 14, distressing images being sent by friends on Whatsapp (you can lock down what your kid can access, not so much what their friends send to them), and a general feeling of not being able to relax anywhere which is sad to see.

In some ways I really wish I'd waited until later to introduce them. I think the next gen parents will likely be smarter in this regard.

Good for you OP. As for your sister, she is BVU treating you like this and disrespecting your wishes for DD.

@LuckyJadeMember can I derail this slightly and ask which one you have please?
I’ve been debating it over the last 2 years but my phone is finally dying so it’s crunch time.

ps your child, you decision. Perhaps she’d be open to some support when she does get a phone, about addiction etc. I don’t think kids should have smart phones and I just hope it’s gone full circle by the time mine is a teenager and wants one.

Your gift is so thoughtful.

Your DSis should have asked you before making such a big and meaningful purchase for your DD. She didn't and that's on her. Anything else is irrelevant really, your DC your rules.
But for what it's worth I agree with you. My DH and I have a smartphones, our DC have flip dumb phones. I was worried initially they might be excluded or bullied by other kids but their friends and classmates were either unbothered or even a bit jealous. My DS's friends ask to play snake on his phone all the time. They use messaging apps on their tablets at home and they really don't miss out. We've agreed we'll revisit when they turn 16 and they might get stripped down smartphones then, but no one is in a rush. Stand firm!

OP, have you really been staying up until 3/4am to reply to this thread on your pc in the living room?

If your rule is no smartphone, your rule is no smartphone. YANBU.

Lol at the idea she needs to learn how to use one. You know they've only existed for about 15 years? How do you think everyone 40+ learned to use one? It takes minutes to figure out.

I think it's shifted massively in the last couple of years. You're definitely not alone on this, DD13 doesn't have one either. Life 360 creeps me out. I don't like, especially for girls, having them feel like it is normal to be tracked and observed.

9 out 10 people who post on AIBU don’t think they’re being unreasonable! I’m with you OP!

Do you think your DD has talked to your sister about having a smart phone because she dosnt want to upset you.
I wish I had a flip dumbphone I used to when the mobile first came out. Those were the days when we didn't have computers at school because they were the great big ones you see in films when I was a kid (71).
It funny when you see films that are from back in the day when no one had a mobile no cameras any where no DNA for the police. It makes you wonder how they caught anyone.
Saying all that If your DD hasn't asked you for a smart phone and seems happy with not having one well that's good.
You sound like a lovely mum and I hope you make it up with your sister and she realises you have boundaries.

Personally, I would let her choose which gift she wants.

It’s not the point that she has access to everything via separate devices. The point is that smartphones, whilst putting all those things in one place, are designed to be addictive. You pick it up to take a photo - oh I’ll just check TikTok while I’m here. You post the photo on Insta and you’ve lost half an hour scrolling.

That’s the difference.

I completely agree with PPs who mention the loss of attention span and other downsides of phone/social media use.

Sounds like OP’s daughter has the best of both worlds at the moment. Their plan to revisit it when she’s older and maybe needs it for college or travel etc sounds fine to me.

(Sent from my smartphone because I’m undisciplined and there was absolutely no need for me to open MN before 7am but here we are…)

You’re the parent so your rules go. No 14 year old needs a smartphone.