DSis says I'm awful for not letting her give DD14 a smartphone and that my gift for her is ridiculous, outdated and cruel.

[LuckyJadeMember]

DD14 is not allowed to have a smartphone. She uses a flip phone and has a thinkpad as well and is perfectly fine with it. Her birthday is next Sunday.

She likes to listen to music and the radio, but her phone doesn't have a music player so I bought a fiio music player on amazon, this one. It's 50 quid, and a nice blue colour. I also got her a case and screen protector for it.

I know what bands she listens to, so I went and bought some MP3 albums off bandcamp and amazon music, and put them on the MP3 player, and gave her a £100 bandcamp gift card too so she can buy some more music.

I also got her a nice portable canon as the camera on her phone is a bit naff, this one.

My sister met with me today because she wanted to show me what she got for her. It was an iPhone, the latest model. I said that she's not meant to have one, and that she won't be getting it so it'd be best to return it. It ended up in an argument, and DSis left the house angry. She called me later to yell at me and tell me how cruel I am for not allowing her to have a smartphone, and called me 'awful' and insulted my gifts several times.

AIBU?

Smart phones should be illegal for under 16’s. That would help with social media issues with that age group.

And the amount of people who seem to think smartphones for young teens are ok is really quite telling. Do people not realise what these things do to developing brains? The apps are designed to be addictive. They are designed to send push notifications through when the phone hasn’t been used for so many minutes. Everything is done to get you to use it, constantly.
A developing brain does not need that intrusion.

Your gift looks brilliant. I like the retro style. I think a lot of younger people love this sort of thing.
My youngest dd asked for a vinly player and now uses all her spare money for records. And doesnt have social media . She keeps up with her friends still.
I agree when your dd is a bit older she will probably get one as can be handy depending on the situation. Like for instance maps/finding things when in a location not used too. Or getting information thats needed fast.
But I dont think it sounds like she needs it now.
I also think its one of those things that is the parents choice to buy. Your sister shouldn't have brought it and just decided she could have a smartphone.

As mums here, many of us will know the link between rising sexual violence and coercion, and the ubiquitous nature of online porn. So many young women report dangerous sexual experiences with men, and while both sexes access porn it is men who predominate in the demand for it. Beyond a certain point they will become addicted, and if viewing it while their sexuality is developing it permanently wires their sexuality to be dysfunctional. Look up the work of Gail Dines in this area if you disagree with me, there is a wealth of research on this.

Yet so many do not want to see the link between that, and the access to online porn by young people with a device in their hands which can access the internet 24/7.

IMO giving teenagers (girls as well as boys, but especially boys) smartphones and hoping they don't watch porn enough to get addicted to it, is insanity. Most parents don't know which controls to use and how, and most teenagers are gonna find a way to bypass them anyway. So thinking you can stop them accessing it on the phones you give them, is just wishful thinking.

Best to not give them a device capable of that in the first place, until they're older.

I see so many people in this thread completely oblivious to this danger, so in favour of giving their kids smartphones. This is concerning.

The internet is a place. Where they can see so many things their brains are not ready for, and where strangers can access them. Think of it like that, and maybe you'll see my point?

Dunno. But I do expect this comment to get a lot of hate. So be it.

OP, I think you're doing good parenting and your DS was out of line and rude. Grey rock until she apologises.

Your DSis is horribly disrespectful and trying to solve a problem her niece doesn’t have. She needs to butt out.
DD sounds happy in her current set up and is probably relieved she’s not plagued by social media and di** pics as her friends will be

Ah yes, the argument always trotted out by parents incapable of saying No to their kids.

Even if the DD wants one, that doesn't mean she needs one or should have one.

I agree. Nobody ever wants to believe that they have made choices, as parents, which could have harmed their children. This is why they are so quick to attack anyone who doesn't make the same choice.

@LuckyJadeMember of course you are right (no sarcasm). I am in London and know plenty of teens who don’t have smart phones.

There will be a lot of people who will want to justify why they/their kids have smart phones.
My dc, DH and I all have smart phones - there are pros and cons and I think the cons so outweigh the pros but for various reasons we need them. If you or your DC don’t need them or even particularly want them then don’t get one and no need to justify why to anyone else.
I hope the tide turns on smart phones in some way.

They offer flights to places other airlines don't, especially from smaller airports. Last time I flew with them, those with the APP got through quicker. If your DD goes away in a group, she's going to want to do what is easier for everyone. Not take a stance for the sake of it. Those at work who've switched, might have addictions. As long as, at 16 your Sis can gift her a smart phone, fair enough, impose your will on her while she is still a minor. But to stipulate that she's got to pay for it herself, when she has relatives who will give a smartphone as a present, would be very controlling.

Stay strong.
Most people are addicted to their phones and can’t understand surviving without one.
And parents who have given their children smartphones will be furious with any evidence to suggest how detrimental they are so ignore the posters on the attack.

When your daughter is an adult and working she can buy her own phone and I’m sure she’ll pick up how to use it within minutes like everyone else does.

@noworklifebalance if you are against them, why does your whole family have them?
I can see the appeal of not having them in London, because of the thefts.

@Thedevilhasfinallycaughtupwithhim Just to understand the reasoning. Why does she have to be working? Why couldn't she accept the present from her Auntie so she could be fully involved in College life (for example), or with her friendship groupat 16?

My sil told me I was ruining my kid's social lives by not allowing them an X box in their bedrooms. They had an Xbox in the living room and were perfectly happy sharing. I expected my dc to socialise with their friends in person - retro I know. Stick to your guns - my sil regretted her choice to tech up her kids. I didn't.

Reasoning? Are you completely ignorant to how mentally damaging constant social media access is proving to be to teen girls? It's an increasingly serious issue and the OP is very lucky her teen hasn't pushed the issue. Though increasingly, teens themselves are recognising the issue and forming a culture that rejects it.

My DS is thirteen and has only recently raised getting a phone and also wants a flip phone. He absolutely refuses to have a smartphone and he wants an mp3 player rather than access to music streaming.

As for the posters coming up with the 'argument' that she won't be proficient with technology. What decade are you in? It's not the eighties,where computer usage required training. Smartphones are designed to be used as simply as possible, they don't require experience of technology. That argument is just cope for lazy parenting. Younger teens really shouldn't be on smartphones and future generations will be learning about the folly of this phase of parenting, laughing at such stupid attempts to justify not being arsed to make a hard decision.

It really doesn't take long to learn how to use a smart phone, that's kind of the point, especially for young people. So I wouldn't give any thought to the fact she'll behind as an adult when she does get one

Is it possible that your daughter is more open with her aunt about actually wanting one? She might be reluctant to tell you because she knows how you feel about it.

And that's a lot of gadgets to be carrying around with her - a smartphone has all those things in one.

I can’t believe some of the responses here. First of all you are the parent, you have made a valid parenting decision about a significant matter, and it is absolutely inappropriate for someone else to try to override that. Your sister was absolutely out of line buying something she KNEW you have said no to.

As for whether she should have a smartphone or not, she doesn’t really need one and there are all sorts of downsides to smartphones, from online bullying, constant access to the worst kinds of porn (which has been shown to be having an awful effect on young brains), to teens getting depressed from FOMO produced by social media, to screen addiction, which thieves your time, gives you bad posture, and keeps people from real productive hobbies.

As for the suggestions that she will be behind, or a “country bumpkin” when the time comes to get a smartphone, you’ve no need to worry. As long as she is cognitively normal she will have no problems picking up how to use it, they are specifically made to be intuitive and easy to use.

I think this is likely.

Maybe thought this was the way to do it

I think you’re right to stick to your guns at 14 if she’s happy with the current set up, I would’ve kept the present however and given it to her at 16 - phones don’t go out of date that quickly, my young adults have a model going back a few years (they’d like a newer one but that’s up to them to buy it).
You should’ve told your sister ‘thanks v much but dd would rather wait until sixth form as she’s happy with her current tech for
However, just be careful that she is happy w the current tech situation and not just saying it to please you.

And don’t forget to get her the latest vaping technology too. Wouldn’t want her to be left behind in that, either. 🙄

Because for something which has been proven to be so detrimental to our health and wellbeing, and something which has been proven to be addictive, adults should make the decision without it being enabled by others. Just like any other addiction.

Apple products are over priced and shit, I don't blame you for returning it OP!

Left behind 🤣🤣 she is only 14/15. She has plenty of time to figure out how snap or a QR code works. Jesus! Your post makes out she is a 20 year old raised off grid.

some of you need to read some Jonathan Haidt and learn how smart phones and social media can damage girls mental health and self esteem.

I'm more surprised that someone would want to spend at least £600 on their 14 year old niece's birthday. Mine got a card and a £10/20 clothes shop voucher at that age.

Imagine people were as worried about online as they are about kids being outside alone. It's equally dangerous in different ways.